Should China call Trumps bluff?

[nigel99 568]

Trump ‘duly ordered’ US companies out of China.

With companies like Apple etc heavily reliant on China, it seems to me that the Chinese could give Trump exactly what he wants and remove the ability to operate in China.

It seems in most countries there are laws that give foreign countries a ‘license to operate’. With Trump being a petulant child and behaving the way he is, if I was Chinese I would honestly pick one or two key US companies and pull their license to operate. It would not have to be for long but could you imagine the repercussions just prior to Christmas, a new iPhone release or whatever if they did this?

Forget Russians manipulating elections, I feel the Chinese could pull far bigger punches if this continues to escalate.

[yobnoc 142]

14 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

Trump ‘duly ordered’ US companies out of China.

With companies like Apple etc heavily reliant on China, it seems to me that the Chinese could give Trump exactly what he wants and remove the ability to operate in China.

It seems in most countries there are laws that give foreign countries a ‘license to operate’. With Trump being a petulant child and behaving the way he is, if I was Chinese I would honestly pick one or two key US companies and pull their license to operate. It would not have to be for long but could you imagine the repercussions just prior to Christmas, a new iPhone release or whatever if they did this?

Forget Russians manipulating elections, I feel the Chinese could pull far bigger punches if this continues to escalate.

It's just crazy.  You know how you get companies to come back to the US?  Reinstate the corporate tax rate at 24%.  lower it to 19% if they have half or more of their business here in the states, and 1% less for every 10% beyond that.  And to qualify for interest-free loans from the fed they need to have at least 75% of their business done here.

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

32 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

Trump ‘duly ordered’ US companies out of China.

Hi Nigel,

'Trump signals ‘second thoughts’ on escalating his trade war with China'

It does look as though the blowhard is now backing down.  

Just another 'Nothing Burger' from the idiot in the Oval Office.

Or maybe Xi called him up & said, 'Here is what I can do, fella.'

Jerry Baumchen

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/25/donald-trump-china-trade-war-1474382

[mbohu 77]

10 minutes ago, yobnoc said:

lower it to 19% if they have half or more of their business here in the states

But what does it mean "to have X % of their business done in the states"? 
Report x% of their income here? Have x% of production here (only the one owned by the company or also all suppliers and supplier's suppliers, etc.?) Have x % of their sales here? How should that be calculated, reported and enforced?

No one wants to admit it, but we are simply entering (or have entered already) a time where most BIG problems--economic, ecologic and political--are simply connected worldwide and need global solutions. As much as it is going to set all the "world government" conspiracy theorists off, ultimately SOME form of world government is going to be necessary. May it be a democratic (or better) one and may it be focused on governing as in: "organizing and finding solutions" and not governing as in: "ruling over"

In the meantime --and again this is unpopular on all sides--some form of global collaboration and global agreements will be necessary between nation states or regions. Again, may they be focused on the needs of humanity as a whole and not just on the needs of global corporations... but necessary they are in any case: In this case, the best way to ensure no tax evasion is to simply not create any tax havens ANYWHERE in the world. It could easily be made part of a global agreement (such as the TPP or what will eventually replace it)

[yobnoc 142]

21 minutes ago, mbohu said:

But what does it mean "to have X % of their business done in the states"? 
Report x% of their income here? Have x% of production here (only the one owned by the company or also all suppliers and supplier's suppliers, etc.?) Have x % of their sales here? How should that be calculated, reported and enforced?

No one wants to admit it, but we are simply entering (or have entered already) a time where most BIG problems--economic, ecologic and political--are simply connected worldwide and need global solutions. As much as it is going to set all the "world government" conspiracy theorists off, ultimately SOME form of world government is going to be necessary. May it be a democratic (or better) one and may it be focused on governing as in: "organizing and finding solutions" and not governing as in: "ruling over"

In the meantime --and again this is unpopular on all sides--some form of global collaboration and global agreements will be necessary between nation states or regions. Again, may they be focused on the needs of humanity as a whole and not just on the needs of global corporations... but necessary they are in any case: In this case, the best way to ensure no tax evasion is to simply not create any tax havens ANYWHERE in the world. It could easily be made part of a global agreement (such as the TPP or what will eventually replace it)

You make good points.  Obviously I'm not an economist, else I wouldn't be humping away in a factory making connecting rods for heavy duty truck engines.  It's a complicated issue, to be sure.  The ruling class and the servile class are at odds right now.  I have to believe this isn't as complicated as they would have us believe, however.  The people who benefit the most are the ones standing in the way of change, and their money goes a long way.  The best investment you can make in the U.S.A. is to buy a politician.

[yoink 321]

4 minutes ago, yobnoc said:

I have to believe this isn't as complicated as they would have us believe, however.  .

I suspect it’s much more complicated to be honest.

Politicians dumb it down for us because firstly they don’t understand it themselves, and secondly they can make it a political talking point.

’Im going to leave economics to the several dozen people in the world who really understand it’ isn’t an electable position.

[DJL 235]

I'm curious if at this point we could've endured the same losses by identifying the companies that had intellectual property and technology transfer issues and simply paid them to produce their products in the US.

[turtlespeed 226]

On 8/25/2019 at 6:07 PM, mbohu said:

But what does it mean "to have X % of their business done in the states"? 
Report x% of their income here? Have x% of production here (only the one owned by the company or also all suppliers and supplier's suppliers, etc.?) Have x % of their sales here? How should that be calculated, reported and enforced?

No one wants to admit it, but we are simply entering (or have entered already) a time where most BIG problems--economic, ecologic and political--are simply connected worldwide and need global solutions. As much as it is going to set all the "world government" conspiracy theorists off, ultimately SOME form of world government is going to be necessary. May it be a democratic (or better) one and may it be focused on governing as in: "organizing and finding solutions" and not governing as in: "ruling over"

In the meantime --and again this is unpopular on all sides--some form of global collaboration and global agreements will be necessary between nation states or regions. Again, may they be focused on the needs of humanity as a whole and not just on the needs of global corporations... but necessary they are in any case: In this case, the best way to ensure no tax evasion is to simply not create any tax havens ANYWHERE in the world. It could easily be made part of a global agreement (such as the TPP or what will eventually replace it)

I do not think that a complete global economy is the way to go.

There must be some separation of there will be even more corruption

 

[wmw999 2,534]

3 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

I do not think that a complete global economy is the way to go.

There must be some separation of there will be even more corruption

 

As long as there are capitalist countries, and poor countries willing to make stuff for them inexpensively, there will be a global economy. There are too many people who always think the cheapest option is best (look at a Walmart parking lot).

Wendy P. 

[turtlespeed 226]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

As long as there are capitalist countries, and poor countries willing to make stuff for them inexpensively, there will be a global economy. There are too many people who always think the cheapest option is best (look at a Walmart parking lot).

Wendy P. 

As long as there is ambition . . .there will be inequality.

[mbohu 77]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

As long as there are capitalist countries, and poor countries willing to make stuff for them inexpensively, there will be a global economy.

That's only a tiny part of it, though: There are resources that simply aren't available in every country. There may also be some specialization in expertise that is not available anywhere, and most importantly there are simply projects and industries that cannot (or should not) be executed by a single country alone (most of the transportation industry--especially air travel--for example)
And as long as the Scots continue to make Scotch and the French, Italians and Austrians make wine and many foods I can't get here, I'll certainly benefit from the global economy.

[JoeWeber 2,824]

8 hours ago, mbohu said:

That's only a tiny part of it, though: There are resources that simply aren't available in every country. There may also be some specialization in expertise that is not available anywhere, and most importantly there are simply projects and industries that cannot (or should not) be executed by a single country alone (most of the transportation industry--especially air travel--for example)
And as long as the Scots continue to make Scotch and the French, Italians and Austrians make wine and many foods I can't get here, I'll certainly benefit from the global economy.

Damn well said. Until someone can improve on Glenfarclas 40 or a great Austrian Dry Riesling peace must prevail.

[kallend 2,106]

14 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

As long as there is ambition . . .there will be inequality.

As long as there is mathematics there will be inequality.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-inequality-inevitable/

The mathematical models also call attention to the enormous extent to which wealth distribution is caused by symmetry breaking, chance and early advantage (from, for example, inheritance). And the presence of symmetry breaking puts paid to arguments for the justness of wealth inequality that appeal to “voluntariness”—the notion that individuals bear all responsibility for their economic outcomes simply because they enter into transactions voluntarily—or to the idea that wealth accumulation must be the result of cleverness and industriousness. It is true that an individual's location on the wealth spectrum correlates to some extent with such attributes, but the overall shape of that spectrum can be explained to better than 0.33 percent by a statistical model that completely ignores them. Luck plays a much more important role than it is usually accorded, so that the virtue commonly attributed to wealth in modern society—and, likewise, the stigma attributed to poverty—is completely unjustified.

 

[turtlespeed 226]

OH - By the By . . . Someone signed off on easing the trade war a bit today.

 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

11 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

OH - By the By . . . Someone signed off on easing the trade war a bit today.

 

I have only seen a tweet. Would like to see actual wording in agreement. Otherwise it is just another mass market manipulation to make himself and his friends rich(er).

Edited December 13, 2019 by SkyDekker

[DJL 235]

2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

I have only seen a tweet. Would like to see actual wording in agreement. Otherwise it is just another mass market manipulation to make himself and his friends rich(er).

I doubt we'll see a white house press release.  Trump will simply back it down quietly, say (lie) that China is going to cave in on intellectual property issues and then brag about how much money we're making on trade now that he fixed everything.  And people will believe him.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

1 hour ago, DJL said:

I doubt we'll see a white house press release.  Trump will simply back it down quietly, say (lie) that China is going to cave in on intellectual property issues and then brag about how much money we're making on trade now that he fixed everything.  And the fools who support him will believe him.

FIFY 

[normiss 851]

Calling Trump's bluff seems to work in favor of a few other countries.

He doesn't have the skill nor the guts to respond properly, much less follow through on what he considers threats.

He continually backs down. NoKo, Russia, Turkey seem to have the most success so far.

Internationally, his administration is failing miserably.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Internationally, his administration is a laughing stock.

The recent NATO summit is a good example.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/world/europe/trump-video-nato.html

 

And what does he do when that sort of thing happens?

Runs away. Like the coward he is.

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

18 minutes ago, normiss said:

He doesn't have the skill nor the guts to respond properly, much less follow through on what he considers threats.

He continually backs down. 

Hi Mark,

A perfect description of a typical school yard bully.

Without his old 'go get'em, tiger', Roy Cohn, Trump is a nothing burger.

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

Hi folks,

Re:  'Trump is a nothing burger.'

Once again Trump is a toothless tiger:  'Trump Backtracks On Brazil Steel Tariffs'

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/20/790363065/trump-backtracks-on-brazil-steel-tariffs

Looks like he is still all bluster and nothing else.

So much for campaign promises; as if anyone actually believed him.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[turtlespeed 226]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

Re:  'Trump is a nothing burger.'

Once again Trump is a toothless tiger:  'Trump Backtracks On Brazil Steel Tariffs'

 

 

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/20/790363065/trump-backtracks-on-brazil-steel-tariffs

Looks like he is still all bluster and nothing else.

So much for campaign promises; as if anyone actually believed him.

Jerry Baumchen

 

So I'm clear . . . Are you mad that he didn't follow through and reconsidered?  Or is the hate so fierce that you can't see past it, and have to point out SOMETHING - ANYTHING?

 

Another way to look at it is: Damn, Trump wised up and listened closer to his advisors.  They know what they are talking about.  Maybe he's learning some lessons here.

Edited December 21, 2019 by turtlespeed

[richravizza 28]

Heres another take on the same situation 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/04/trump-describes-trudeau-as-two-faced-over-nato-hot-mic-video

Sure looked like a win for NATO and the US with $400 Billion and no US increases, school yard antics aside.Trump handled them quite well, let them laugh.

As for China

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/19/china-economy-grows-at-slowest-pace-in-25-years-latest-gdp-figures-show

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=jNgDXt7pEoSItQXoh7CQCw&q=china+economy+slowdown&oq=china+econ&gs_l=psy-ab.1.2.0l10.2437.8013..11581...1.0..0.222.1153.11j0j1......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i131j0i10.mxfdESn4K58

 

for your entertainment

 

 

 

[gowlerk 2,249]

20 minutes ago, richravizza said:

Heres another take on the same situation 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/04/trump-describes-trudeau-as-two-faced-over-nato-hot-mic-video

Sure looked like a win for NATO and the US with $400 Billion and no US increases, school yard antics aside.Trump handled them quite well, let them laugh.

As for China

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/19/china-economy-grows-at-slowest-pace-in-25-years-latest-gdp-figures-show

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=jNgDXt7pEoSItQXoh7CQCw&q=china+economy+slowdown&oq=china+econ&gs_l=psy-ab.1.2.0l10.2437.8013..11581...1.0..0.222.1153.11j0j1......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i131j0i10.mxfdESn4K58

 

for your entertainment

 

 

 

That was back when he was already a racist prick, but not yet a senile dotard.

[richravizza 28]

19 hours ago, gowlerk said:

That was back when he was already a racist prick, but not yet a senile dotard.

 

When did Trump put on Blackface, my Northern Frenemy?  How's does this list fit your narrative?

• 1976 Humanitarian Award by the National Jewish Health;
• 1983 Tree of Life Award by the Jewish National Fund;
• 1986 Ellis Island Award given to Trump, Rosa Parks and Muhammad Ali;
• 1990 video of the Rev. Jesse Jackson lauding Trump as a friend to minorities and underserved communities. Jackson expressed appreciation for Trump’s support of the Rainbow Push Coalition’s initiative called the Wall Street Project, which aimed to help minority-owned businesses;
• 1995 President’s Medal by the Freedom Foundation (Washington) for his support of youth programs;
• 2007 Muhammad Ali Entrepreneur Award;
• 2008 Unicorn Children’s Foundation Shining Star Award;
• 2011 Presidential Hero Award by the Lois Pope Life Foundation;
• 2015 The Algemeiner Liberty Award for contributions to Israel-United States relations.

The above limited list does NOT do justice to all that Donald Trump did for minority groups before he was elected president. To call this man a racist is a modern-day form of a political lynching: destroy the person’s character and reputation no matter the truth. Democrats have been using this ugly technique for decades. I do not see how anyone would want to associate with such a group.

 Trudeau and his brilliant  beta socks emulate a sense of leadership that sends a warm  tingle up my leg, wouldn't you agree?

Just Imaging Mr. Trudeau in a General MacArthur moment,with his pretty stockings wet,I shall return!,cut,Cut.CUT!!   Now get me my soy latte, and no damn drinking straw this time.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49837590    

 I guess he's another example of the Ivy league soft skinned, bone spur class you mentioned.Trump handled your little boy like the rank apprentice that he is .How did  those  tariffs work out, I thought The USMCA seems amicable.

What's the saying, About throwing stones when you live in a house made of glass or solar panels on your roof.

Seems Canada big brother  language police have employment security.