brenthutch 444 #26 October 23, 2019 7 hours ago, kallend said: Sure, like the way he gave up Syria to Putin. Still waiting for Kallend to explain this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #27 October 23, 2019 16 hours ago, SkyDekker said: Which NATO obligation was the US afoul off prior to pulling out so fast the Russians have already taken over your bases in Syria? I did some research after that post. Seems Turkey was brought in during the cold war to have more allies in the region. Not sure they still should be a member. Seems like we may be fighting against our own weapons. This is not the first time we gave/sold weapons to another country that ended up being used against us. I can see wanting to get out of Syria but once again we create a situation and bail out with it more fucked up than when we got there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #28 October 23, 2019 11 hours ago, brenthutch said: Still waiting for Kallend to explain this one. Not my fault if you are unable to figure out what happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #29 October 23, 2019 Hmm - NOW - it seems the US being the world police is good . . . until its not, again. Or, rather, I should put it this way - NOW - the US --NOT-- being the world police is BAD, until its not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #30 October 23, 2019 11 hours ago, brenthutch said: Still waiting for Kallend to explain this one. I understand what you're talking about but this is what he's talking about: Turkey, Russia Reach Deal To Control Syrian Areas Once Patrolled By The U.S. https://www.npr.org/2019/10/22/772387023/turkey-russia-reach-deal-to-control-syrian-areas-once-patrolled-by-the-u-s Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #31 October 23, 2019 That is a far cry from “gave up Syria to Putin“ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #32 October 23, 2019 (edited) I'm curious here - Does the left now believe we should be the police now? Are we supposed to be the world police? Are we NOT supposed to be the world police? Which is it now? Then it makes one ask, "When will that opinion change again?" Will that only be after a more liberal president is in office? Who is it here that refuses to see the hypocrisy and irony? (Ha - come to think of it, it's kind of like tribalism, no?) Edited October 23, 2019 by turtlespeed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #33 October 23, 2019 Google “Team America saves Paris” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #34 October 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Google “Team America saves Paris” Why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #35 October 23, 2019 You have to watch the video. It backs up Rick’s point of how we often leave places where we intervene worse off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #36 October 23, 2019 I couldn’t get it to be clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #37 October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: That is a far cry from “gave up Syria to Putin“ Certainly but I get where he's coming from. It's more like we gave up the Kurds and our own influence in the region to Putin, so I'd prefer to clarify his point. It was always a tricky situation because what, were we going to stay there forever? Lets say that the infighting entirely ceased, what then? We had control of a faction that threatened our NATO ally and could use our influence to settle a long-standing issue in the region regarding them. Instead we're leaving their fate and all diplomacy along the border of out NATO ally to Putin. If anyone thought that regions went to shit after US intervention they know they go to shit after Russian intervention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #38 October 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, DJL said: If anyone thought that regions went to shit after US intervention they know they go to shit after Russian intervention or sometimes we take turns with Russia in fucking up a region Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #39 October 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rick said: or sometimes we take turns with Russia in fucking up a region ^^^This I wonder if I'll get any responses regarding my questions about when and when not to be the world's police force. Why is it OK sometimes in one place, but when the political climate changes, it is no longer acceptable? Obviously the reverse is true as well. I would find it refreshing to see those that have this line of thinking to at least admit it. After all, it looks to me like it doesn't really matter who is doing what and why, nearly as much as it matters who is doing it and what side of center they hail from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,447 #40 October 23, 2019 When we're already policing, it's tacky to just get out. You broke it, you bought it, and all that. We should consider carefully before policing if it's not our country. "Sphere of influence" is not our country. OTOH, if we are asked for help by an ally (i.e. someone with whom we have a treaty, not just our friend-du-jour), we should consider it carefully. And if we're attacked on our soil, we should do proper detective work before just going off and wasting a few people or countries. Because we're unlikely ever again to be attacked a la Pearl Harbor; a 9-11 style attack is much more likely when you're the superpower. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #41 October 23, 2019 58 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: ^^^This I wonder if I'll get any responses regarding my questions about when and when not to be the world's police force. Why is it OK sometimes in one place, but when the political climate changes, it is no longer acceptable? Obviously the reverse is true as well. I would find it refreshing to see those that have this line of thinking to at least admit it. After all, it looks to me like it doesn't really matter who is doing what and why, nearly as much as it matters who is doing it and what side of center they hail from. Personally I’d like to see the US slower to get involved in world policing in the future. That’s different to ‘less’. But also I think that if we’re already in a place and leaving will create a vacuum then we have an obligation to develop a plan for a real transition and contingencies for what happens if it goes to shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #42 October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, turtlespeed said: I wonder if I'll get any responses regarding my questions about when and when not to be the world's police force. As a general rule, going in is something that has to be weighed up very carefully, however once you are in, leaving has to be done with even more care. Basically, you broke it you bought it. And when it comes to anything to do with ISIS, god damn did we ever break it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #43 October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, turtlespeed said: I'm curious here - Does the left now believe we should be the police now? Are we supposed to be the world police? Are we NOT supposed to be the world police? Which is it now? I would put it more like "Don't stab your nation's allies in the back for your personal gain". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #44 October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, kallend said: I would put it more like "Don't stab your nation's allies in the back for your personal gain". We can agree on that - What is it that he is doing that the left didn't demand he do, though? How much of a catch 22 is this situation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #45 October 24, 2019 12 hours ago, turtlespeed said: What is it that he is doing that the left didn't demand he do, though? What is he doing that they did? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #46 October 24, 2019 5 hours ago, jakee said: What is he doing that they did? A lot of the same things. Evidently, its OK when it is the left doing it. That same thing is reprehensible when the enemy does it though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbohu 77 #47 October 24, 2019 On 10/23/2019 at 8:45 AM, turtlespeed said: Does the left now believe we should be the police now? Are we supposed to be the world police? Are we NOT supposed to be the world police? Which is it now? You are making 2 generalizations and assumptions here, that make it impossible to get the clear answer you want: 1) "that "the left" is a single entity that has a single opinion on all matters of foreign policy 2) That it is necessary to have such a black and white simplistic opinion on matters that are necessarily highly nuanced. ("which is it now?") If anything, I'd say that is what "the left" often criticizes about "the right". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #48 October 24, 2019 33 minutes ago, mbohu said: You are making 2 generalizations and assumptions here, that make it impossible to get the clear answer you want: 1) "that "the left" is a single entity that has a single opinion on all matters of foreign policy 2) That it is necessary to have such a black and white simplistic opinion on matters that are necessarily highly nuanced. ("which is it now?") If anything, I'd say that is what "the left" often criticizes about "the right". Generalizations based on majority opinions, and statements released by like minded leaders. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #49 October 24, 2019 On 10/23/2019 at 7:11 AM, turtlespeed said: Hmm - NOW - it seems the US being the world police is good . . . until its not, again. Or, rather, I should put it this way - NOW - the US --NOT-- being the world police is BAD, until its not. How old are you? Considering you are older than 12, I am surprised you just now are figuring out the world isn't black and white. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #50 October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, SkyDekker said: How old are you? Considering you are older than 12, I am surprised you just now are figuring out the world isn't black and white. That, my friend, depends on who's president and who's camp you reside in. I'm not in either camp - That is what make it so amusing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
