Tax the rich, feed the poor, 'til there are no rich no more

[airdvr 210]

Elizabeth Warren's tax plan will be a big drain on the economy.  Does she really believe those being targeted won't find a way to avoid that tax?

To be fair I do like the "Excessive Lobbying Tax".

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/05/these-are-the-taxes-elizabeth-warren-has-proposed-for-2020.html

[gowlerk 2,245]

Why do Americans not understand the fact that single payer healthcare is cheaper than a hodgepodge of private for profit insurance schemes financed by employers through lower wages? Tax policy and collection always falls mostly on those who have taxes deducted at source. You are correct, the wealthy will find a way to avoid taxation like they always do.

Edited November 8, 2019 by gowlerk

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Because we're idiots?

The insurance industry has done an excellent job convincing the 'useful idiots' that single payer would be 'socialism', that it would result in 'death panels', that it would be too costly, and on and on. 

Throw in partisan bickering and you get what we saw during the Clinton & Obama administrations. 

Jimmy Carter had a fairly decent and comprehensive plan, but it got torpedoed by Ted Kennedy, who was still butt hurt about losing the nomination for President. 

[normiss 843]

3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Why do Americans not understand the fact that single payer healthcare is cheaper than a hodgepodge of private for profit insurance schemes financed by employers through lower wages? Tax policy and collection always falls mostly on those who have taxes deducted at source. You are correct, the wealthy will find a way to avoid taxation like they always do.

It's only the equivalent of a mortgage payment for health insurance coverage for 2!

Why would anyone think that's bad???

 

 

/s

[kallend 2,105]

Must be why every other developed nation abandoned single payer universal health care decades ago.  Oh, wait, they didn't.

Must be why every other developed nation has poorer health outcomes (life expectancy, infant mortality, maternal mortality) than we do.  Oh wait, they don't.

Must be why there are no rich people in the other G20 nations.  Oh wait, there are.

[jakee 1,558]

14 hours ago, airdvr said:

Does she really believe those being targeted won't find a way to avoid that tax?

So why the thread title?

[airdvr 210]

Because that seems to be the plan 

[airdvr 210]

2 hours ago, kallend said:

Must be why every other developed nation abandoned single payer universal health care decades ago.  Oh, wait, they didn't.

Must be why every other developed nation has poorer health outcomes (life expectancy, infant mortality, maternal mortality) than we do.  Oh wait, they don't.

Must be why there are no rich people in the other G20 nations.  Oh wait, there are.

Many conditions that might explain the U.S. health disadvantage—from individual behaviors to systems of care—are also influenced by the physical and social environment in U.S. communities. For example, built environments that are designed for automobiles rather than pedestrians discourage physical activity. Patterns of food consumption are also shaped by environmental factors, such as actions by the agricultural and food industries, grocery store and restaurant offerings, and marketing. U.S. adolescents may use fewer contraceptives because they are less available than in other countries. Similarly, more Americans may die from violence because firearms, which are highly lethal, are more available in the United States than in peer countries. A stressful environment may promote substance abuse, physical illness, criminal behavior, and family violence. Asthma rates may be higher because of unhealthy housing and polluted air. In the absence of other transportation options, greater reliance on automobiles in the United States may be causing higher traffic fatalities. And when motorists do take to the road, injuries and fatalities may be more common if drunk driving, speeding, and seatbelt laws are less rigorously enforced, or if roads and vehicles are more poorly designed and maintained.

Explain to me how a single payer system changes these problems.  BTW...I'm all for a single payer system.

[kallend 2,105]

The usual excuses that ignore the elephant in the room.

[gowlerk 2,245]

23 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Explain to me how a single payer system changes these problems.  BTW...I'm all for a single payer system.

It doesn't. What it changes is people who are sick can get care when then need it. Even poor people. It's that simple.

[billvon 3,059]

15 hours ago, airdvr said:

Elizabeth Warren's tax plan will be a big drain on the economy.  Does she really believe those being targeted won't find a way to avoid that tax?

Of course they will, just as many people avoid taxes now.  Yet they still work to run the government.

[billvon 3,059]

34 minutes ago, airdvr said:

 

Explain to me how a single payer system changes these problems.  BTW...I'm all for a single payer system.

We were talking about single payer, not single curer.  Single payer just fixes the "who pays for it" problem.

[wmw999 2,515]

32 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Explain to me how a single payer system changes these problems.  BTW...I'm all for a single payer system.

Just get old; you’ll get to the single payer health plan. I just signed up for Medicare; I must say, they make signing up as painful as possible, and I had the advantage of a firm to help me decide (both my husband and I had access to retiree medical insurance).

Wendy P. 

[jakee 1,558]

43 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Because that seems to be the plan 

How is that the plan? 2% of wealth over $50M will make a person not rich? I don’t get it.

 

What your thread title seems to me is a fundamental misunderstanding of how rich the rich are. You could feed all the poor with a tax on only the richest of the rich and it would make absolutely no difference to the fact that they’d still be ultra-ultra-rich. 

[airdvr 210]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

How is that the plan? 2% of wealth over $50M will make a person not rich? I don’t get it.

 

What your thread title seems to me is a fundamental misunderstanding of how rich the rich are. You could feed all the poor with a tax on only the richest of the rich and it would make absolutely no difference to the fact that they’d still be ultra-ultra-rich. 

Let's add up all of the taxes in her plan

2% over $50,000,000.00

3% over a billion. (actually now it's 6%. If I choose to leave the country 40%?

7% corporate over $100 million in profits (most of the folks being targeted with the personal taxes are also business owners)

Increase the SS contribution from 12.4% to 14.8%.  Self employed take the pipe on this one..

I'm telling you now, these taxes will drive businesses to reduce their size and/or move their location.  Business will again be on the defensive.  But I know you don't care about that as long as you get your free stuff.

[billvon 3,059]

8 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Let's add up all of the taxes in her plan

2% over $50,000,000.00

3% over a billion. (actually now it's 6%. If I choose to leave the country 40%?

7% corporate over $100 million in profits (most of the folks being targeted with the personal taxes are also business owners)

Increase the SS contribution from 12.4% to 14.8%.  Self employed take the pipe on this one..

I'm telling you now, these taxes will drive businesses to reduce their size and/or move their location.  Business will again be on the defensive.  But I know you don't care about that as long as you get your free stuff.

Top tax bracket for businesses was 35% up until 2017.  Then it dropped to 21%.   This raises it back to 28% - still lower than 2016 levels.  Hard to panic over companies fleeing when it's less than it was 5 years ago.

Let's look at the wealth tax.  Guy with $50 million has to pay 2%.  He makes, on average, 8%.  So now he's making only 6% a year.  Inflation is 2.5%.  So even after inflation he is making 3.5% a year.  That poor. poor multimillionaire is now making "only" $1.75 million a year (effective) from his investments.  How will he live?  Surely he will move to Algeria rather than suffer so!

[kallend 2,105]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

Top tax bracket for businesses was 35% up until 2017.  Then it dropped to 21%.   This raises it back to 28% - still lower than 2016 levels.  Hard to panic over companies fleeing when it's less than it was 5 years ago.

Let's look at the wealth tax.  Guy with $50 million has to pay 2%.  He makes, on average, 8%.  So now he's making only 6% a year.  Inflation is 2.5%.  So even after inflation he is making 3.5% a year.  That poor. poor multimillionaire is now making "only" $1.75 million a year (effective) from his investments.  How will he live?  Surely he will move to Algeria rather than suffer so!

I hear Somalia and South Sudan each have very limited government, and nice weather most of the year.

[kallend 2,105]

4 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Just get old; you’ll get to the single payer health plan. I just signed up for Medicare; I must say, they make signing up as painful as possible, and I had the advantage of a firm to help me decide (both my husband and I had access to retiree medical insurance).

Wendy P. 

My lovely wife is a physician AND was medical director of a health insurance company before she retired.  Not only was she appalled by her own industry's inefficiency, but when it came time to sign up for Medicare she (and I) found it sufficiently confusing that we hired a consultant to help us out.

The basic Medicare itself is not too bad, but the Medicare Supplements (such as BC/BS) and add-ons are really poorly presented, and I suspect it's deliberate.

[mbohu 77]

On 11/9/2019 at 6:56 AM, airdvr said:

Many conditions that might explain the U.S. health disadvantage—from individual behaviors to systems of care—are also influenced by the physical and social environment in U.S. communities. For example, built environments that are designed for automobiles rather than pedestrians discourage physical activity. Patterns of food consumption are also shaped by environmental factors, such as actions by the agricultural and food industries, grocery store and restaurant offerings, and marketing. U.S. adolescents may use fewer contraceptives because they are less available than in other countries. Similarly, more Americans may die from violence because firearms, which are highly lethal, are more available in the United States than in peer countries. A stressful environment may promote substance abuse, physical illness, criminal behavior, and family violence. Asthma rates may be higher because of unhealthy housing and polluted air. In the absence of other transportation options, greater reliance on automobiles in the United States may be causing higher traffic fatalities. And when motorists do take to the road, injuries and fatalities may be more common if drunk driving, speeding, and seatbelt laws are less rigorously enforced, or if roads and vehicles are more poorly designed and maintained.

Yes. Let's change all these things as well. That pretty much sounds like the program of the same politicians that want to bring you single payer healthcare.

[piisfish 140]

On 11/9/2019 at 3:22 PM, gowlerk said:

It doesn't. What it changes is people who are sick can get care when then need it. Even poor people. It's that simple.

Why would you want to keep poor people alive ? Let them die. Then it will be a country of rich people. 

[gowlerk 2,245]

2 hours ago, piisfish said:

Why would you want to keep poor people alive ? Let them die. Then it will be a country of rich people. 

More to the point, if you are not good enough to pay for it, or hold a good enough job that provides it, you simply do not deserve level of healthcare that better people and their families get. It's just Darwinist "survival of the fittest" through good capitalism at work.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

More to the point, if you are not good enough to pay for it, or hold a good enough job that provides it, you simply do not deserve level of healthcare that better people and their families get. It's just Darwinist "survival of the fittest" through good capitalism at work.

Well, the funny part of that is that if someone is old or really poor, Medicare & Medicaid can be of help (many but not all).

It's the 'working class' folks, you know, the ones Trump and the Rs are so popular with, that end up going bankrupt over medical bills. 

[JoeWeber 2,810]

On 11/8/2019 at 6:33 PM, airdvr said:

Elizabeth Warren's tax plan will be a big drain on the economy.  Does she really believe those being targeted won't find a way to avoid that tax?

To be fair I do like the "Excessive Lobbying Tax".

https://www.cnbc.com/20't19/10/05/these-are-the-taxes-elizabeth-warren-has-proposed-for-2020.html

Assuming you aren't opposed to taxation that provides for whatever you consider to be essential services, what constitutes "Tax the Rich"?  For example, are you opposed to a graduated income tax where the highest earners pay a higher percentage of their income than the kid with a lemonade stand? Of course, I'm assuming he's a liberal kid from California who cheerfully pay's whatever tax his Mom levies. But also, what do you consider rich? You made no qualification or set parameters in the OP so I'd like to know what you consider "rich" such that additional tax will collapse the system.

[kallend 2,105]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Well, the funny part of that is that if someone is old or really poor, Medicare & Medicaid can be of help (many but not all).

It's the 'working class' folks, you know, the ones Trump and the Rs are so popular with, that end up going bankrupt over medical bills. 

People are saying that more people go bankrupt in the USA over healthcare costs than all of the EU + Canada + Australia combined. 

[JoeWeber 2,810]

5 minutes ago, kallend said:

People are saying that more people go bankrupt in the USA over healthcare costs than all of the EU + Canada + Australia combined. 

People are saying.....? Er, um, arrgh, are we defensing with Trumpism's now? Count me in!