That was fun. Now roast the bastard.

[wmw999 2,447]

So it’s really a game, and all about gaming the system. Actual truth doesn’t matter, just what you can sell. That’s, like, part of the very definition of swamp creature  

Wendy P. 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Ok...that was fun.  https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-12-19/trump-impeachment-delay-could-be-serious-problem-for-democrats

Impeachment as contemplated by the Constitution does not consist merely of the vote by the House, but of the process of sending the articles to the Senate for trial. Both parts are necessary to make an impeachment under the Constitution: The House must actually send the articles and send managers to the Senate to prosecute the impeachment. And the Senate must actually hold a trial.

 

That's outstanding. So now you understand the process, sort of at least, and that Trump isn't ousted by the House vote to impeach. Seriously dude, whatever news you listen to is not making you smarter.

[turtlespeed 220]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

That's outstanding. So now you understand the process, sort of at least, and that Trump isn't ousted by the House vote to impeach. Seriously dude, whatever news you listen to is not making you smarter.

I believe, and I'm sure you realise, that what the point is, is that they are falsely claiming that they impeached him.

 

[yoink 321]

18 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I believe, and I'm sure you realise, that what the point is, is that they are falsely claiming that they impeached him.

 

Semantics.This is complete fucking nonsense for the sake of arguing. The technicality of exactly which nanosecond a president moves from an unimpeached state to an impeached one ONCE the decision has been made is utter sophistry. When the documents are sent over you'll be saying 'ah ah ah. He's not TECHNICALLY impeached until 23:59:59 that day. LOOK AT THE LIARS!!' or something equally stupid.

 

So yeah. While the house could say 'we have agreed to impeach the president although we still need to courier the documents over to the senate along with our prosecutors to formally call it impeached, but the reality is that we can do this at any point in the future which changes nothing but are choosing not to until the senate stop putting themselves above the law.' it's a bit wordy for easy water cooler conversation. 

 

 

 

[airdvr 210]

My point is delaying the transmittal to the Senate is playing politics with the impeachment.  Maybe Nancy needs to transmit it so she'll know what's in it.

[gowlerk 2,192]

20 minutes ago, airdvr said:

My point is delaying the transmittal to the Senate is playing politics with the impeachment.  Maybe Nancy needs to transmit it so she'll know what's in it.

Really? Imagine that! Pelosi dares to go up against McConnell in the "playing politics" game. Of course they are playing politics, that's what they do and both of them are masters at the game.

[normiss 800]

5 hours ago, airdvr said:

Ok...that was fun.  https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-12-19/trump-impeachment-delay-could-be-serious-problem-for-democrats

Impeachment as contemplated by the Constitution does not consist merely of the vote by the House, but of the process of sending the articles to the Senate for trial. Both parts are necessary to make an impeachment under the Constitution: The House must actually send the articles and send managers to the Senate to prosecute the impeachment. And the Senate must actually hold a trial.

 

So you're actually attempting to claim that Bill Clinton was not impeached.

Interesting.

The law says otherwise, as does the oath required to perform the process legally, which republicans are flat out refusing to comply with.

So, no.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

 Maybe Nancy needs to transmit it so she'll know what's in it.

Hi airdvr,

Do you actually believe that?

Jerry Baumchen

[airdvr 210]

10 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi airdvr,

Do you actually believe that?

Jerry Baumchen

Just a play on words from the ObamaCare days.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

7 hours ago, airdvr said:

My point is delaying the transmittal to the Senate is playing politics with the impeachment.  Maybe Nancy needs to transmit it so she'll know what's in it.

They're not STD's and McConnell isn't her doctor. They're articles of impeachment and unlike the R doofus's in the House and Senate you can bet your unbalanced budget she's read them and fully understands them. What is it with conservatives and civics?

[turtlespeed 220]

8 hours ago, airdvr said:

My point is delaying the transmittal to the Senate is playing politics with the impeachment.  Maybe Nancy needs to transmit it so she'll know what's in it.

THAT sounds a bit like abuse of power to me.

[sfzombie13 324]

16 hours ago, wmw999 said:

So it’s really a game, and all about gaming the system. Actual truth doesn’t matter, just what you can sell. That’s, like, part of the very definition of swamp creature  

Wendy P. 

it is and always has been.  the only thing that has really changed since the inception of the nation is the fact they stopped trying to hide it.  those in charge have had no real notion of caring for much of anything except power and re-election.  maybe some of the ones in the beginning, and the odd congressman now and then, but for the most part congress has been bought and paid for for well over a century.  i wrote a paper in college regarding when the law started being ignored and the first presidential act i could find was when lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus.  seeing as how the constitution was nothing more than an elaborate compromise and had it not been for hamilton (if i recall correctly), there would have been no bill of rights. 

 

while it is nice to think of how corrupt our system has gotten, it is just more visible now and has been corrupt from the start.  it will not get any better without some serious reform, and that will never happen.

[gowlerk 2,192]

5 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said:

those in charge have had no real notion of caring for much of anything except power and re-election.

The important thing is what do they want to do with the power. If the goal is to enrich or glorify themselves the the motivation is bad. But really, if that's what they want they chose a poor way to go about it. I'm of the possibly naive belief that for most of them the reason to reach for power is the true desire to do what is best for their society. Even Trump has an element of this in his motivations. 

[ryoder 1,590]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The important thing is what do they want to do with the power. If the goal is to enrich or glorify themselves the the motivation is bad. But really, if that's what they want they chose a poor way to go about it. I'm of the possibly naive belief that for most of them the reason to reach for power is the true desire to do what is best for their society. Even Trump has an element of this in his motivations. 

Bullshit;

Trump has no motivations other than his:

1. Ego

2. Money

3. Stomach

4. Dick

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

19 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

 Even Trump has an element of this in his motivations. 

Hi Ken,

I could not disagree more.

There is nothing decent about him.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,720]

22 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The important thing is what do they want to do with the power. If the goal is to enrich or glorify themselves the the motivation is bad. But really, if that's what they want they chose a poor way to go about it. I'm of the possibly naive belief that for most of them the reason to reach for power is the true desire to do what is best for their society. Even Trump has an element of this in his motivations. 

I do believe that you've taken this see the good in things stuff too far.

[kallend 2,027]

14 hours ago, airdvr said:

My point is delaying the transmittal to the Senate is playing politics with the impeachment.  Maybe Nancy needs to transmit it so she'll know what's in it.

But the GOP Senators' coordination with the White House, and pre-emptive statements that their minds are made up before having a trial are NOT playing politics?

Really?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

11 minutes ago, kallend said:

But the GOP Senators' coordination with the White House, and pre-emptive statements that their minds are made up before having a trial are NOT playing politics?

Really?

Nope. 

That's simply corruption.

If a juror in a civil or criminal trial openly admitted that they were coordinating their efforts with either side, the juror would be removed immediately. 
There is a strong possibility that the trial would be suspended and a mistrial declared. 

 

If, during the 'voir dire' process of any trial, a potential juror declared that they knew how they would vote during deliberations, they would be removed.

 

I think it's kind of a shame that the House doesn't impeach McConnell for his misdeeds. THAT would be funny.

[ryoder 1,590]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Nope. 

That's simply corruption.

If a juror in a civil or criminal trial openly admitted that they were coordinating their efforts with either side, the juror would be removed immediately. 
There is a strong possibility that the trial would be suspended and a mistrial declared. 

 

If, during the 'voir dire' process of any trial, a potential juror declared that they knew how they would vote during deliberations, they would be removed.

 

I think it's kind of a shame that the House doesn't impeach McConnell for his misdeeds. THAT would be funny.

If my reading is correct, it can’t be done. Both House and Senate can remove their own members with a vote, but impeachment involving both houses does not apply.

[turtlespeed 220]

6 hours ago, gowlerk said:

The important thing is what do they want to do with the power. If the goal is to enrich or glorify themselves the the motivation is bad. But really, if that's what they want they chose a poor way to go about it. I'm of the possibly naive belief that for most of them the reason to reach for power is the true desire to do what is best for their society. Even Trump has an element of this in his motivations. 

I think it starts out that way.

But at the end - there is more self interest once the politicians figure out just how much capital there is to be made.

Trump is an extreme example.

I think he went in knowing that he would make bank, more than, Say the Obamas did.

It may be my bias, but I have a hard time believing it was as much as the Clintons, though.

[yoink 321]

3 hours ago, ryoder said:

If my reading is correct, it can’t be done. Both House and Senate can remove their own members with a vote, but impeachment involving both houses does not apply.

Can you imagine the carnage if parties could remove each others members? 

Personally I think what McConnell and Graham have publicly stated should be what Ron's patriots should genuinely be marching on Washington about.

 

I'd like to see a non-politically appointed GA who's remit included the behavior of Congress and the House.

[yoink 321]

6 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I think he went in knowing that he would make bank, more than, Say the Obamas did.

I think Trump went with the INTENT to make bank regardless of the consequences for the people or the country. I don't think we've seen that before. 

 

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

I think he went in knowing that he would make bank, more than, Say the Obamas did.

It may be my bias, but I have a hard time believing it was as much as the Clintons, though.

Why do you think that? Explain. Use evidence. Demonstrate any level of critical thought beyond your bias that went into that conclusion.

[billvon 2,991]

On 12/20/2019 at 10:42 AM, brenthutch said:

Are you saying that Obama did not obstruct congress?

It's actually the president's job to do that.  (Read the Constitution for more info.)

[brenthutch 444]

26 minutes ago, billvon said:

It's actually the president's job to do that.  (Read the Constitution for more info.)

So you would agree the article of impeachment “obstruction of congress” is BS?