covid-19

[kallend 2,057]

Is there anyone else here who can't figure out why  

“perpetrators of the ten most egregious examples of profiteering and dysfunction in health care.” 

could be shamed with an "award" named for Martin Shkreli?

[nwt 131]

1 minute ago, kallend said:

Is there anyone else here who can't figure out why  

“perpetrators of the ten most egregious examples of profiteering and dysfunction in health care.” 

could be shamed with an "award" named for Martin Shkreli?

No, that's pretty obvious--I don't take issue with the name of the award.

I think calling Moderna "perpetrators of [one of] the ten most egregious examples of profiteering and dysfunction in health care", from the information presented in the article, which I outlined in my initial response, is hyperbolic.

[gowlerk 2,217]

2 hours ago, nwt said:

No, that's pretty obvious--I don't take issue with the name of the award.

I think calling Moderna "perpetrators of [one of] the ten most egregious examples of profiteering and dysfunction in health care", from the information presented in the article, which I outlined in my initial response, is hyperbolic.

I'm not going to take a position on that. But it is interesting that Moderna has long been a promising company with a new technology that has had a lot of money pumped into with nothing but failures and losses to show for it over a decade, At this point, they need a success very badly and have a lot of reason to try to get as much revenue out of this vaccine as possible. They are a one product company at this point, up from being a failing company.

[headoverheels 333]

The US will approve the AstraZenaca vaccine, and it will become the most widely used.

Edited January 7, 2021 by headoverheels

[Westerly 61]

On 1/5/2021 at 2:03 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

It's SDAZ.

All over FB.

There have been a few places that have posted "we had a big party and now we find out that someone present was likely contagious". 
Not just DZs, but other places that I pay attention to.

Gonna with hold my 'sympathies and condolences' towards folks who deliberately chose to ignore the science and common sense because they really wanted to go to a fucking party.

More infections. Shit is off the chain there. Nothing but FB posts from people saying they tested positive, line after line. I guess that is what happens when you host a large party with no masks in a state with one of the highest rates of covid infections on the entire planet. If only there was some way we could have known this was going to happen....

I for one lost a ton of respect for SDAZ.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Westerly

[nwt 131]

17 hours ago, headoverheels said:

The US will approve the AstraZenaca vaccine, and it will become the most widely used.

Why?

[Phil1111 1,149]

17 hours ago, headoverheels said:

The US will approve the AstraZenaca vaccine, and it will become the most widely used.

Possibly, Covishield vaccine at $2.74 per dose is the Indian brand for the  AstraZenaca vaccine. But Russia, China, Canada, France, US, etc. all have multiple vaccines under development and trials.

[billvon 3,029]

God knows Trump has been an unmitigated disaster for Americans suffering through the pandemic.  He's made a huge number of missteps - lying to people about how serious it was, mocking mask usage, telling people to LIBERATE!!!! themselves from COVID-19 social distancing restrictions, taking a pass on extra vaccine shipments, encouraging people to use quack cures, caring more about "the numbers" than stopping the disease, refusing to work with other countries on mitigation.

But it would be unfair to concentrate on all that without pointing out the times he did something right, like today.  Today the administration adopted the Biden policy of getting as many vaccines out as quickly as possible, and not "holding back" the second dose.  There are two possible outcomes:

1) Vaccine companies increase output and thus they get the second vaccination as well
2) Vaccine companies do not increase output and then they have to wait for the second one.  However, there is some evidence that even one vaccination significantly improves resistance, and thus significantly reduces Re.

So overall a positive step.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/12/trump-covid-vaccine-second-shot/

[kallend 2,057]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

God knows Trump has been an unmitigated disaster for Americans suffering through the pandemic.  He's made a huge number of missteps - lying to people about how serious it was, mocking mask usage, telling people to LIBERATE!!!! themselves from COVID-19 social distancing restrictions, taking a pass on extra vaccine shipments, encouraging people to use quack cures, caring more about "the numbers" than stopping the disease, refusing to work with other countries on mitigation.

But it would be unfair to concentrate on all that without pointing out the times he did something right, like today.  Today the administration adopted the Biden policy of getting as many vaccines out as quickly as possible, and not "holding back" the second dose.  There are two possible outcomes:

1) Vaccine companies increase output and thus they get the second vaccination as well
2) Vaccine companies do not increase output and then they have to wait for the second one.  However, there is some evidence that even one vaccination significantly improves resistance, and thus significantly reduces Re.

So overall a positive step.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/12/trump-covid-vaccine-second-shot/

Unlikely that Trump himself had anything whatever to do with it, based on his previous total lack of concern about anything but himself and his current preoccupation with his impending indictments, debt repayments, etc.

[billvon 3,029]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Unlikely that Trump himself had anything whatever to do with it, based on his previous total lack of concern about anything but himself and his current preoccupation with his impending indictments, debt repayments, etc.

Well, you could say the same thing about (for example) refusing those extra 100 million doses that Pfizer offered him.  But I have a feeling you're going to hold him accountable for that, eh?

[kallend 2,057]

3 minutes ago, billvon said:

Well, you could say the same thing about (for example) refusing those extra 100 million doses that Pfizer offered him.  But I have a feeling you're going to hold him accountable for that, eh?

He wasn't totally preoccupied with his election loss back then, so he had more time to screw us over. 

[Westerly 61]

8 hours ago, billvon said:

 and not "holding back" the second dose. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/12/trump-covid-vaccine-second-shot/

That I dont agree with that unless a 2nd shipment is firmly guaranteed to arrive in time. See the thing is this vaccination is tested on the STRICT requirement that the 2nd dose must be given within a specifically narrow time frame. Neither vaccination has been tested where the 2nd dose was given outside of a few day range of the 21 / 28 day recommendation by the manufacturer.

So I foresee an issue where lots of people go and get their 1st dose, but when it comes time to get their 2nd they are left holding their dick in their hands because there arnt any vaccinations left. That's a big problem and it's a problem for which we dont know what will happen as it has not been tested. There really needs to be a firm guarantee that when you get the 1st dose you're going to get the 2nd and it's going to be administered on time. Otherwise we could end up vaccinating a lot of people and for all we know the vaccination doesn't work at all becasue it was not administered correctly. Then we have to backtrack and RE vaccinate all those who were vaccinated incorrectly--if we even can. I can also see people mixing and matching the two different brands because they cant get the 2nd shot of the correct brand and that absolutely has not been tested. So just do it right and hold the 2nd shot in reserve. We dont really have the time or resources to half ass this and do it incorrectly.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Westerly

[headoverheels 333]

51 minutes ago, Westerly said:

That I dont agree with that unless a 2nd shipment is firmly guaranteed to arrive in time. See the thing is this vaccination is tested on the STRICT requirement that the 2nd dose must be given within a specifically narrow time frame. Neither vaccination has been tested where the 2nd dose was given outside of a few day range of the 21 / 28 day recommendation by the manufacturer.

So I foresee an issue where lots of people go and get their 1st dose, but when it comes time to get their 2nd they are left holding their dick in their hands because there arnt any vaccinations left. That's a big problem and it's a problem for which we dont know what will happen as it has not been tested. There really needs to be a firm guarantee that when you get the 1st dose you're going to get the 2nd and it's going to be administered on time. Otherwise we could end up vaccinating a lot of people and for all we know the vaccination doesn't work at all becasue it was not administered correctly. Then we have to backtrack and RE vaccinate all those who were vaccinated incorrectly--if we even can. I can also see people mixing and matching the two different brands because they cant get the 2nd shot of the correct brand and that absolutely has not been tested. So just do it right and hold the 2nd shot in reserve. We dont really have the time or resources to half ass this and do it incorrectly.

Aren't you the one who was happy for people to start taking the vaccine prior to approval? 

[yoink 321]

59 minutes ago, Westerly said:

That I dont agree with that unless a 2nd shipment is firmly guaranteed to arrive in time. See the thing is this vaccination is tested on the STRICT requirement that the 2nd dose must be given within a specifically narrow time frame. Neither vaccination has been tested where the 2nd dose was given outside of a few day range of the 21 / 28 day recommendation by the manufacturer.

So I foresee an issue where lots of people go and get their 1st dose, but when it comes time to get their 2nd they are left holding their dick in their hands because there arnt any vaccinations left. That's a big problem and it's a problem for which we dont know what will happen as it has not been tested. There really needs to be a firm guarantee that when you get the 1st dose you're going to get the 2nd and it's going to be administered on time. Otherwise we could end up vaccinating a lot of people and for all we know the vaccination doesn't work at all becasue it was not administered correctly. Then we have to backtrack and RE vaccinate all those who were vaccinated incorrectly--if we even can. I can also see people mixing and matching the two different brands because they cant get the 2nd shot of the correct brand and that absolutely has not been tested. So just do it right and hold the 2nd shot in reserve. We dont really have the time or resources to half ass this and do it incorrectly.

So now you’re for sticking within procedures?

What happened to ‘take your chances, it’s better than covid!’?

 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

12 minutes ago, yoink said:

So now you’re for sticking within procedures?

What happened to ‘take your chances, it’s better than covid!’?

 

Well, see, now he is concerned about his second dose. It is another classic example of caring only about oneself.

[Westerly 61]

19 minutes ago, yoink said:

So now you’re for sticking within procedures?

What happened to ‘take your chances, it’s better than covid!’?

 

My argument was that it was going to be approved anyway and so we should roll it out sooner rather than later. I never made the argument that it should be administered in a way not approved by the manufacturer. Also, at that time it wasent even clear how many doses were needed. At first it was thought to be just one.

[Westerly 61]

7 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Well, see, now he is concerned about his second dose.

Not really. I work at a large hospital. They are going to follow protocol regardless of what politicians want them to do. I am not really concerned about myself. I am concerned about the shit show that will come to be if this roll out is done as half-assedly as everything about this pandemic has been done.

[billvon 3,029]

4 minutes ago, Westerly said:

My argument was that it was going to be approved anyway and so we should roll it out sooner rather than later.

Well, then, longer time between doses is going to work anyway as well.

[JoeWeber 2,762]

11 minutes ago, Westerly said:

My argument was that it was going to be approved anyway and so we should roll it out sooner rather than later. I never made the argument that it should be administered in a way not approved by the manufacturer. Also, at that time it wasent even clear how many doses were needed. At first it was thought to be just one.

Oh for fucks sake, man, are you new here? Don't you read Brent? Don't defend, change the damn argument. Suck jakee in and 5 posts later you are home free. Bada Bing!

[Westerly 61]

a

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Westerly

[Westerly 61]

Says the guy who literally just got done doing exactly that. billvon literally just said that he is all for taking short cuts and administering the doses incorrectly and that's cool with everyone. However, when I was like 'we should probably just expedite phase 3 and release it to everyone' then all of a sudden you guys are all high and mighty and think it's a bad idea.

So to make things clear, it is not okay to expedite phase 3 testing of the product but it IS okay to administer it in a manner that is inconsistent with manufacturer testing and approval? Just making sure I got this right.

The DIFFERENCE between the two is that I was arguing that because there IS evidence that the vaccine was successful and safe, it should be released. Currently, there is NO evidence that dosing incorrectly will yield an effective outcome. One argument has evidence, the other does not. See the difference?

Edited January 13, 2021 by Westerly

[headoverheels 333]

There is data that a single dose greatly decreases the number of people that get sick, and nearly eliminates people going into the hospital.

 

[Westerly 61]

1 hour ago, headoverheels said:

There is data that a single dose greatly decreases the number of people that get sick, and nearly eliminates people going into the hospital.

 

Great, let's see it.

[headoverheels 333]

1 hour ago, Westerly said:

Great, let's see it

 

 

Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine Phase 2 trials 56-day gap Phase 3 trials https://www.thelancet.com/journals/la... Good immunity with 6-week gap https://www.thelancet.com/journals/la... Efficacy after one dose, 64% Efficacy after 2 doses, 70 – 80% Cases, 21 days after first SD, 64% Vaccine group, 51 Control group, 141 Efficacy 64% Severe cases 21 days after the first dose of Oxford / AZ Vaccine group, 0 Control group, 10 hospitalised (2 severe, 1 death) Covid-19: Pfizer BioNTech vaccine efficacy was 52% after first dose and 95% after second dose https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056... https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m... Twelve days after the first dose Vaccine group, 39 cases Placebo group, 82 cases 52% efficacy Severe cases after one dose Vaccine group, 1 Placebo group, 9 New UK vaccine protocol Change to one dose, second within 3 months Statement from the UK Chief Medical Officers on the prioritisation of first doses of COVID-19 vaccines https://www.gov.uk/government/news/st... Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) Oxford, 2 doses 4 to 12 weeks apart Pfizer, 2 doses 3 to 12 weeks apart The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) will protect the greatest number of at risk people overall in the shortest possible time and will have the greatest impact on reducing mortality, severe disease and hospitalisations and in protecting the NHS and equivalent health services. second doses of both vaccines will be administered towards the end of the recommended vaccine dosing schedule of 12 weeks The Green Book https://www.gov.uk/government/publica... https://assets.publishing.service.gov... If an interval longer than the recommended interval is left between doses, the second dose should still be given (preferably using the same vaccine as was given for the first dose). The course does not need to be restarted. There is no evidence on the interchangeability of the COVID-19 vaccines although studies are underway. Therefore, every effort should be made to determine which vaccine the individual received and to complete with the same vaccine. There is no evidence of any safety concerns from vaccinating individuals with a past history of COVID-19 infection, or with detectable COVID-19 antibody

[Phil1111 1,149]

"Scientists in Brazil have downgraded the efficacy of a Chinese coronavirus vaccine that they hailed as a major triumph last week, diminishing hopes for a shot that could be quickly produced and easily distributed to help the developing world.

Officials at the Butantan Institute in São Paulo said on Tuesday that a trial conducted in Brazil showed that the CoronaVac vaccine, manufactured by the Beijing-based company Sinovac, had an efficacy rate just over 50 percent. That rate, slightly above the benchmark that the World Health Organization has said would make a vaccine effective for general use, was far below the 78 percent level announced last week."

China lying about Covid, who'd a thunk it?