covid-19

[gowlerk 2,216]

1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

Slightly erotic as I recall. Otherwise just a sore spot on my shoulder that went away in an hour or so.

Eros is your companion?

[base698 19]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

The covid virus itself causes myocarditis with those under 30 being at higher risk.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

Post-vaccination CAE rate was highest in young boys aged 12-15 following dose two. For boys 12-17 without medical comorbidities, the likelihood of post vaccination dose two CAE is 162.2 and 94.0/million respectively. This incidence exceeds their expected 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization rate at both moderate (August 21, 2021 rates) and high COVID-19 hospitalization incidence

 

 

 

 

[JoeWeber 2,742]

1 minute ago, base698 said:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

Post-vaccination CAE rate was highest in young boys aged 12-15 following dose two. For boys 12-17 without medical comorbidities, the likelihood of post vaccination dose two CAE is 162.2 and 94.0/million respectively. This incidence exceeds their expected 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization rate at both moderate (August 21, 2021 rates) and high COVID-19 hospitalization incidence

 

 

 

 

Dude, you can google. We're happy for you. But next to nothing is as good as nothing in most situations. The thing is that in real life you look at the big picture like when my 4-way team gave me tail. That was exactly the slot I didn't want but sometimes you look past that shit and take one for the team. In the end I came to like it somewhat; at least no one was looking at me every second.

[billvon 3,008]

 

2 hours ago, base698 said:

You're averaging over all age groups.  My number is specifically younger men 16-19.  In over 85 about 1 in 5 die of covid.  In under 18 since beginning of 2020 only 499 have died (less than 1 in 100k).

So men ages 16-19 make up about 33 million people here in the US.

Unfortunately no one breaks out hospitalizations just for the 16-19 group, but per the CDC, in the 16-17 year old subgroup of the 5-17 group the total hospitalizations (adjusted linearly for that subgroup) are 444, and in the 18-19 year old group of the 18-49 year old group the adjusted hospitalizations are 2018 total.  Which means about 74 in 100,000 in that 16-19 age group end up hospitalized.  (Yes, the former is underestimated and the latter is overestimated - but that's the best data we have.)  We will divide by 2 to capture just the men.

So again you are making a choice between:

Odds of hospitalization due to COVID: 37 out of 100,000
Odds of myocarditis with vaccine: 13 out of 100,000

Seems like a straightforward choice - at least for men ages 16-19.

[olofscience 480]

10 hours ago, base698 said:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/covid-vaccine-related-myocarditis-rare-usually-mild-studies-say

You haven't read that article properly...it's kind of becoming a recurring theme here. From the article you linked:

Quote

Analyzing data on 2,392,924 at least partially vaccinated adults in the Kaiser Permanente health system, the researchers found 15 cases of confirmed myocarditis, with 2 after the first and 13 after the second dose....

Compared with 1,577,741 unvaccinated Kaiser Permanente patients, who had 75 incidences of myocarditis during the study period

The title - "COVID vaccine-related myocarditis rare, usually mild, studies say" - actually implies that the vaccines are safe...

10 hours ago, base698 said:

in non-pharma owned states

ah, the conspiracy theory again...

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

9 hours ago, kallend said:

The covid virus itself causes myocarditis with those under 30 being at higher risk.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm

Apparently myocarditis caused by Covid has a little bit higher chance of happening than that caused by vaccination.

Just a bit.

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/oilers-archibald-s-risk-of-myocarditis-would-have-been-10-000-fold-lower-with-covid-19-vaccine-cardiologist-1.5610976

[DougH 270]

15 hours ago, base698 said:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/covid-vaccine-related-myocarditis-rare-usually-mild-studies-say

> The myocarditis risk difference between the first and second dose was 1.76 cases per 100,000 people (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.33 to 2.19), or less than a 0.002% incidence. The largest difference was among male recipients 16 to 19 years, who had 13.73 cases per 100,000 people (95% CIs, 8.11 to 19.46)—but even that level amounts to only a 0.014% incidence.

 

13 in 100k is worse than the covid rate which is why it's being suspended for those under 30 in non-pharma owned states.

 

 

 

Risk of Myocarditis from COVID-19 Infection in People Under Age 20: A Population-Based Analysis

"For the 12-17-year-old male cohort, 6/6,846 (0.09%) patients developed myocarditis overall, with an adjusted rate per million of 876 cases (Wilson score interval 402 - 1,911). For the 12-15 and 16-19 male age groups, the adjusted rates per million were 601 (257 - 1,406) and 561 (240 - 1,313). For 12-17-year-old females, there were 3 (0.04%) cases of myocarditis of 7,361 patients. The adjusted rate was 213 (73 - 627) per million cases. For the 12-15- and 16-19-year-old female cohorts the adjusted rates per million cases were 235 (64 - 857) and 708 (359 - 1,397). The outcomes occurred either within 5 days (40.0%) or from 19-82 days (60.0%).

Conclusions

Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine."

This speaks for itself. As do the other studies which found similar results. The weight of the available scientific evidence doesn't support your misinterpretation (or maybe willing distortion) of the link that you shared.

There are free classes on the internet that teach you how to interpret scientific research, you should take a few.

Edited October 12, 2021 by DougH

[base698 19]

10 hours ago, billvon said:

 

So men ages 16-19 make up about 33 million people here in the US.

Unfortunately no one breaks out hospitalizations just for the 16-19 group, but per the CDC, in the 16-17 year old subgroup of the 5-17 group the total hospitalizations (adjusted linearly for that subgroup) are 444, and in the 18-19 year old group of the 18-49 year old group the adjusted hospitalizations are 2018 total.  Which means about 74 in 100,000 in that 16-19 age group end up hospitalized.  (Yes, the former is underestimated and the latter is overestimated - but that's the best data we have.)  We will divide by 2 to capture just the men.

So again you are making a choice between:

Odds of hospitalization due to COVID: 37 out of 100,000
Odds of myocarditis with vaccine: 13 out of 100,000

Seems like a straightforward choice - at least for men ages 16-19.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/briefing/covid-age-risk-infection-vaccine.html

The chart there shows under 1 in 100k for all unvaccinated up to age 50.  Way under 1 for under 19.  It's based on one location: Seattle which is obviously more healthy on average than Mississippi.

 

> As a point of comparison, the annual risk of death for all vaccinated people over 65 in Seattle this year appears to be around 1 in 2,700. The annual average risk that an American dies in a vehicle crash is lower — about 1 in 8,500 — but not a different order of magnitude.

[base698 19]

5 hours ago, olofscience said:

ah, the conspiracy theory again

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/10/big-pharma-continues-to-top-lobbying-spending/

Drugmakers have spent more than $129 million through September, slightly down from nearly $133 million at this time last year, but still far more than any other industry

[base698 19]

10 hours ago, billvon said:

So again you are making a choice between:

Odds of hospitalization due to COVID: 37 out of 100,000
Odds of myocarditis with vaccine: 13 out of 100,000

Seems like a straightforward choice - at least for men ages 16-19.

A minute risk in 100k of one of the side effects of both.  There have been other risks and there is still some unknown risk which is impossible to quantity.  Hospitalization with covid could mean someone broke their arm with a positive PCR test.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/

But there are many COVID patients in the hospital with fairly mild symptoms, too, who have been admitted for further observation on account of their comorbidities, or because they reported feeling short of breath. Another portion of the patients in this tally are in the hospital for something unrelated to COVID, and discovered that they were infected only because they were tested upon admission.

Even if it is actually 37 in 100k anyone worrying about a 37 in 100k risk rate should never leave the house and certainly should never have done a skydive in their life.  

[kallend 2,030]

4 minutes ago, base698 said:

A minute risk in 100k of one of the side effects of both.  There have been other risks and there is still some unknown risk which is impossible to quantity.  Hospitalization with covid could mean someone broke their arm with a positive PCR test.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/

But there are many COVID patients in the hospital with fairly mild symptoms, too, who have been admitted for further observation on account of their comorbidities, or because they reported feeling short of breath. Another portion of the patients in this tally are in the hospital for something unrelated to COVID, and discovered that they were infected only because they were tested upon admission.

Even if it is actually 37 in 100k anyone worrying about a 37 in 100k risk rate should never leave the house and certainly should never have done a skydive in their life.  

Is that a convoluted way of admitting you were wrong?

[base698 19]

2 minutes ago, kallend said:

Is that a convoluted way of admitting you were wrong?

I personally would not choose or fret over  < 100 in 100k risk between two options. 

Second I have not seen anything stating hospitalization rate exceeds 2 in 100k for under 18.  At the worst rate.  If you go by current CDC deaths the number under 18 is 499.  74 million kids.  .0000067 chance chance of death.  Say 100x more kids are hospitalized than die and that doesn't even get you to 37 in 100k.

As stated hospitalization rate includes people testing positive but admitted for other things.  So therefore it's lower. 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

On 10/8/2021 at 3:07 PM, Cocowheats said:

You started out name calling me months ago.

No I didn't.

Quote

Now you doubt I can afford real medical care.

No. I doubt you have enough money to pay a doctor to tell you everything about medicine you don't know.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:23 PM, Cocowheats said:

yet there are people who continue to think that ANYONE who does not get vax'd is scum of the earth. They fail to recognize any valid reasoning for not taking the vaccine, even though we now have mfgs saying some people maybe shouldn't take it.

That is 2 to 3 per million. On the high end that accounts for about 855 people of the vaccine eligible population in the US. Odds are when you speak to somebody who isn't vaccinated, it has nothing to do with allergies.

 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

14 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Same here. The rules are coming from either the provincial or federal authorities. Our companies are no braver than yours.

Not entirely true. Some of the big banks, health industries, utilities and other large companies announced vaccine mandates prior to provincial and federal mandates. 

[nwt 131]

3 hours ago, base698 said:

If you go by current CDC deaths the number under 18 is 499.  74 million kids.  .0000067 chance chance of death.  Say 100x more kids are hospitalized than die and that doesn't even get you to 37 in 100k

It gets you 67 in 100k

[gowlerk 2,216]

37 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Not entirely true. Some of the big banks, health industries, utilities and other large companies announced vaccine mandates prior to provincial and federal mandates. 

But not until Trudeau indicated that mandates in federally regulated industries were coming. And there is nothing wrong with that. Without knowing that support will be coming to back them up it is hard to be first. The regulators provided that support by asking the banks to do it.

The moves by four of Canada's biggest banks come a week after the government in Ottawa asked federally regulated industries — which would include banks — to mandate vaccinations as COVID-19 cases caused by the delta variant of the coronavirus continue to mount.

Edited October 12, 2021 by gowlerk

[base698 19]

3 hours ago, nwt said:

It gets you 67 in 100k

Yeah woops.  Missed a zero.  Good catch.  

 

Anyone know what the ratio of hospitalized to death is?  Iirc it was something like 10x.

Edited October 12, 2021 by base698

[billvon 3,008]

6 hours ago, base698 said:

But there are many COVID patients in the hospital with fairly mild symptoms, too, who have been admitted for further observation on account of their comorbidities, or because they reported feeling short of breath. Another portion of the patients in this tally are in the hospital for something unrelated to COVID, and discovered that they were infected only because they were tested upon admission.

Just as there are a great many people with a minor case of myocarditis, and even if they are vaccinated it could be completely unrelated to the vaccine.

Again, you are less likely to get myocarditis if you are vaccinated - and you are less likely to end up in the hospital if you are vaccinated.

Your bad advice can get people injured or killed.  Stop it.

[ryoder 1,590]

So now Jim Jordan has decided the GOP position is not just pro-Covid-19, but pro-all-diseases:

 

 

[gowlerk 2,216]

2 minutes ago, ryoder said:

So now Jim Jordan has decided the GOP position is not just pro-Covid-19, but pro-all-diseases:

 

 

Freedom to infect. Is it not in the Bill of Rights somewhere? Is this not covered by the right to bear arms?

[BIGUN 1,326]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Freedom to infect. Is it not in the Bill of Rights somewhere? Is this not covered by the right to bear arms?

IMO Abbot, Jordan and the other politicians condemning vaccine mandates may be pandering to their base, but the fact is; they are making technically illegal statements. If the US Government came out and said that everyone will get a vaccine - there's case law that stands behind it. We do not have the right to infect our fellow citizens and parents cannot choose for their children in a situation like this. I think this article will provide a path to more information if one chooses to research it more, but it is one of the best summaries of the vaccine mandate situation. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html

[gowlerk 2,216]

11 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

IMO Abbot, Jordan and the other politicians condemning vaccine mandates may be pandering to their base, but the fact is; they are making technically illegal statements. If the US Government came out and said that everyone will get a vaccine - there's case law that stands behind it. We do not have the right to infect our fellow citizens and parents cannot choose for their children in a situation like this. I think this article will provide a path to more information if one chooses to research it more, but it is one of the best summaries of the vaccine mandate situation. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html

I believe that you are correct. I was really just making fun of the attitude these people have. Although I am pretty sure that the government in either the USA or Canada can not actually legally force vaccination upon anyone except possibly prisoners or military personnel. But it can certainly impose restrictions on the unvaccinated. I also believe that this battle will be largely behind us in about a year. Only a small number of holdouts will remain and the virus will be limited to small isolated outbreaks. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by gowlerk

[ryoder 1,590]

2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Only a small number of holdouts will remain and the virus will be limited to small isolated outbreaks. 

AKA Trump rallies.

[gowlerk 2,216]

I wonder when Hollywood will produce the first of many movies based on the pandemic experience?