covid-19

[gowlerk 2,190]

5 minutes ago, lippy said:

You have any links to reputable reports that make that comparison?  How often do recipients of the Pfizer vaccine require medical intervention?  Are you making things up again?

Shit, did he say that and I missed it? Damned. 

[winsor 236]

9 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Shit, did he say that and I missed it? Damned. 

Pfizer Post Authorization Safety Data provided per FOIA.  Check it out, it's enlightening.

[gowlerk 2,190]

2 minutes ago, winsor said:

Pfizer Post Authorization Safety Data provided per FOIA.  Check it out, it's enlightening.

A quick Google search on that turns up nothing much. But I do know that there have been "Billions served" worldwide.  Including 275 million in the USA. Show me where the problem is, other than in your imagination.

[Stumpy 284]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Here we go. At least one world leader is pretty much ready to push the panic button.

“It has become increasingly clear that omicron is growing much faster than the previous delta variant and is spreading rapidly all around the world,” he said in a press conference. “Most worryingly, there is evidence that the doubling time of omicron could currently be between two and three days.”

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-business-lifestyle-health-boris-johnson-7164aeee5e2a098ad5cf813fcef388c6

Even if it is somewhat milder there may very well be a lot of people sick at the same time. If he is right nations with high numbers of refusers are going to be hammered hard.

Have a very Merry Christmas everybody.

For context, Boris is also doing this to distract from a bunch of other shitty things that he's responsible for. He's well known for the dead cat technique.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Stumpy

[billvon 2,989]

1 hour ago, lippy said:

You have any links to reputable reports that make that comparison? 

The most common place that people link to is the VAERS, which lists all reactions seen after vaccination.  People put in things like "got a bald spot"  "girlfriend dumped me" even "penis swelled to ten times its normal size."

The warning about this is right up front on the VAERS site: "A report to VAERS does not mean that the vaccine caused the adverse event, only that the adverse event occurred some time after vaccination.   The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental or unverifiable."

Good article on this particular fallacy:

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-health/dont-fall-vaers-scare-tactic

[gowlerk 2,190]

26 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

For context, Boris is also doing this to distract from a bunch of other shitty things that he's responsible for. He's well known for the dead cat technique.

I've heard of the "dead cat bounce", but never the dead cat technique.  I assume you mean that he wants to distract from the Christmas party debacle. The part of his dramatic statement that concerns me is the rate of doubling. We need to watch that because if it holds true the second and hopefully last pandemic winter could have very bad effects. Even with a much lower death rate.

Edited December 10, 2021 by gowlerk

[Stumpy 284]

In this case the dead cat is Omicron, and the thing he wants to distract from is the passing of sweeping anti protest laws (amongst other things).

From Wikipedia:

Boris Johnson employed Crosby as his campaign manager during the 2008 and 2012 London mayoral elections, and wrote of his advice that "There is one thing that is absolutely certain about throwing a dead cat on the dining room table – and I don’t mean that people will be outraged, alarmed, disgusted. That is true, but irrelevant. The key point, says my Australian friend, is that everyone will shout, ‘Jeez, mate, there’s a dead cat on the table!’ In other words, they will be talking about the dead cat – the thing you want them to talk about – and they will not be talking about the issue that has been causing you so much grief."^[

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Stumpy

[winsor 236]

54 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

A quick Google search on that turns up nothing much. But I do know that there have been "Billions served" worldwide.  Including 275 million in the USA. Show me where the problem is, other than in your imagination.

As far as you can tell, there isn't one.  Given that ignorance is bliss, it would be mean of me to spoil your boundless happiness.

[gowlerk 2,190]

7 minutes ago, winsor said:

As far as you can tell, there isn't one.  Given that ignorance is bliss, it would be mean of me to spoil your boundless happiness.

I wouldn't call you a master of FUD. But you're trying. You are not very skilled though.

[lippy 918]

26 minutes ago, winsor said:

As far as you can tell, there isn't one.  Given that ignorance is bliss, it would be mean of me to spoil your boundless happiness.

I'd suggest you wake up to the lies, but we all know how you feel about wokeness. You're getting damn near Trumpian now: There's evidence, mounds of evidence, but you won't share it to protect Ken's feelings.  

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Given that use of the J&J vax was suspended back in April for a few weeks due to serious side effect, I highly doubt that there are significant numbers of them with Pfizer (or Moderna).

There were SIX women who developed significant clots. One died (she likely would have made it if she had sought medical help sooner).

The idea that people are dying from the Pfizer vax in any sort of significant numbers (like more than one or two) is pretty ludicrous.

I know of someone who got into a car accident on the way home from getting their vax.
Ended up in the hospital with some pretty serious injuries.

I know some people would blame that on the vax.

[winsor 236]

9 hours ago, billvon said:

The most common place that people link to is the VAERS, which lists all reactions seen after vaccination.  People put in things like "got a bald spot"  "girlfriend dumped me" even "penis swelled to ten times its normal size."

The warning about this is right up front on the VAERS site: "A report to VAERS does not mean that the vaccine caused the adverse event, only that the adverse event occurred some time after vaccination.   The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental or unverifiable."

Good article on this particular fallacy:

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-health/dont-fall-vaers-scare-tactic

I'm grateful for the dose of reality.

Upon reflection, it is pretty obvious that the FDA is made up of bureaucratic pencil necks, who are notoriously slapdash regarding such things as statistics, procedure and the like.  What a bunch of rubes.

This is from a Pfizer submission, and they're not much better:

 

I know I have an active imagination, know precious little about these things, and am grateful for people who take the time to show me the error of my ways.

Your 'critical thinking' is most impressive, indeed.

Boy, am I embarrassed.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

Edited December 10, 2021 by winsor

[winsor 236]

9 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I wouldn't call you a master of FUD. But you're trying. You are not very skilled though.

Please give me some pointers.  It's frustrating to fall short after so much effort.

[gowlerk 2,190]

1 hour ago, winsor said:

Please give me some pointers.  It's frustrating to fall short after so much effort.

This is getting to be pretty pointless. I'm going to break it off for now. I'm not going to add you to my kill file, I'm still going to read your stuff. But replying to it is starting to make me look as bad as you.

[winsor 236]

10 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

This is getting to be pretty pointless. I'm going to break it off for now. I'm not going to add you to my kill file, I'm still going to read your stuff. But replying to it is starting to make me look as bad as you.

In all seriousness you should probably killfile me.  The likelihood that you will take anything I say for what it's worth appears to be vanishingly small, and if you aren't going to bother to respond with criticism and abuse I can't see why you would waste the time.

YMMV.

[lippy 918]

2 hours ago, winsor said:

I'm grateful for the dose of reality.

Upon reflection, it is pretty obvious that the FDA is made up of bureaucratic pencil necks, who are notoriously slapdash regarding such things as statistics, procedure and the like.  What a bunch of rubes.

This is from a Pfizer submission, and they're not much better:

 

I know I have an active imagination, know precious little about these things, and am grateful for people who take the time to show me the error of my ways.

Your 'critical thinking' is most impressive, indeed.

Boy, am I embarrassed.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

Wow, you found the "Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency" document.  When anti-vaxxers give themselves a fancy name and buy a URL with a '.org' domain they can post all types of bullshit and people looking to confirm their biases will eat it the fuck up!

Here's a link to the original document: https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

These guys got a bit crafty trying to make it look like a legit Pfizer doc: the header has the research name of the vaccine, they're lawsuit-seekingly close to claiming that the whole thing was prepared by Pfizer on page 1, and they even put a file-path stamp on the side of the document...from that stamp, you can clearly see that it was in the 'approved' folder, so you know it is extra verified and totally good.  

Come on, Doctor! Put that big, multisyllabic brain of yours to use before you regurgitate this type of shit

[billvon 2,989]

3 hours ago, lippy said:

These guys got a bit crafty trying to make it look like a legit Pfizer doc: the header has the research name of the vaccine, they're lawsuit-seekingly close to claiming that the whole thing was prepared by Pfizer on page 1, and they even put a file-path stamp on the side of the document...from that stamp, you can clearly see that it was in the 'approved' folder, so you know it is extra verified and totally good.

IIRC Elizabeth Holmes is currently on trial for exactly these sort of shenanigans.  (She did it for financial rather than political reasons, of course.)  The lesson here is that such shenanigans often work, and you really can fool some of the people some of the time.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

7 hours ago, lippy said:

Wow, you found the "Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency" document.  When anti-vaxxers give themselves a fancy name and buy a URL with a '.org' domain they can post all types of bullshit and people looking to confirm their biases will eat it the fuck up!

Here's a link to the original document: https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

These guys got a bit crafty trying to make it look like a legit Pfizer doc: the header has the research name of the vaccine, they're lawsuit-seekingly close to claiming that the whole thing was prepared by Pfizer on page 1, and they even put a file-path stamp on the side of the document...from that stamp, you can clearly see that it was in the 'approved' folder, so you know it is extra verified and totally good.  

Come on, Doctor! Put that big, multisyllabic brain of yours to use before you regurgitate this type of shit

Thank you for sorting it out. posting pictures without a source file or link is usually a pretty clear indication people know they really don't have the facts on their side.

Has anybody noticed how these types of people always have two friends that were affected by the vaccines. They know that one person isn't convincing enough, but three people is too unlikely, so they stick with two. 

[gowlerk 2,190]

New anti-vaxx rumour. Might as well get on top of it before someone makes claims about "VAIDS".

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-business-social-media-media-c260faa27b6e0abe749bd50957fc413d

[mistercwood 287]

9 hours ago, lippy said:

Wow, you found the "Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency" document.  When anti-vaxxers give themselves a fancy name and buy a URL with a '.org' domain they can post all types of bullshit and people looking to confirm their biases will eat it the fuck up!

Here's a link to the original document: https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

These guys got a bit crafty trying to make it look like a legit Pfizer doc: the header has the research name of the vaccine, they're lawsuit-seekingly close to claiming that the whole thing was prepared by Pfizer on page 1, and they even put a file-path stamp on the side of the document...from that stamp, you can clearly see that it was in the 'approved' folder, so you know it is extra verified and totally good.  

Come on, Doctor! Put that big, multisyllabic brain of yours to use before you regurgitate this type of shit

Wait, is it not actually a Pfizer document? I thought it was real, but just missing context and being wildly misinterpreted by the usual crowd (like these things usually are). As in, they see the word "fatal" on table 1 and just go "look at all these people killed by the vax, they admitted it!" without having any info on where that figure came from.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

13 hours ago, lippy said:

Wow, you found the "Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency" document.  When anti-vaxxers give themselves a fancy name and buy a URL with a '.org' domain they can post all types of bullshit and people looking to confirm their biases will eat it the fuck up!

Here's a link to the original document: https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

These guys got a bit crafty trying to make it look like a legit Pfizer doc: the header has the research name of the vaccine, they're lawsuit-seekingly close to claiming that the whole thing was prepared by Pfizer on page 1, and they even put a file-path stamp on the side of the document...from that stamp, you can clearly see that it was in the 'approved' folder, so you know it is extra verified and totally good.  

Come on, Doctor! Put that big, multisyllabic brain of yours to use before you regurgitate this type of shit

Easy Brother, I'm thinking Sir Winsor is without even his imaginary friend by now.

[kallend 2,026]

Why we need a consistent way of reporting data in the USA:
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/11/world/covid-omicron-vaccines#cdc-revising-vaccination-data

And the first detailed study of Omicron (from the UK, of course):

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/11/world/covid-omicron-vaccines#britain-omicron

 

[winsor 236]

ANYONE who criticizes vaccine orthodoxy is an ANTIVAXXER, and should canceled.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext

[gowlerk 2,190]

32 minutes ago, winsor said:

ANYONE who criticizes vaccine orthodoxy is an ANTIVAXXER, and should canceled.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext

The unvaccinated make up over 90% of the ICU patients overwhelming the healthcare system. That matters.

[winsor 236]

2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The unvaccinated make up over 90% of the ICU patients overwhelming the healthcare system. That matters.

Agreed.

My concern is people whose focus is vaccination to the exclusion of all else.  There's an awful lot to this pathogen, and vaccines are useful in slowing it down. 

Weirdly enough, Omicron, with an R nought of 2.5 or so and limited symptoms, may be the swan song of the pandemic.  If everyone gets it and we can keep the long term effects at bay, it may be the ticket to herd immunity.  The trick, of course, it avoiding the permanent damage that seems to be the hallmark of COVID-19 infection.

Banking on vaccination at the expense of everything else was a bad idea at the outset, the kind if idiocy I'd expect from Trump.  Of course, now that he's doing other things, It may have become a good idea in the interim.

 

BSBD,

Winsor