covid-19

[kallend 2,027]

Apparently Vermont and S. Dakota currently have similar infection rates for quite different reasons.

Vermont had an aggressive public health campaign last year, a small death rate,  and now has a high vaccination rate.

SD Had a "personal responsibility" approach from a governor who took essentially no action, a high infection and high death rate last year (much higher than Vermont's), leading to current immunity levels on account of the high rate of prior infections despite a low vaccination rate.

 

[Westerly 61]

On 7/11/2021 at 2:56 PM, billvon said:

 

Nope.  In any given year, the flu kills tens of thousands.  60,000 deaths is a really bad year for flu deaths.  COVID killed 360,000 people last year. 

 

 I dident say per year. I was speaking in absolute terms. Covid has existed for one year. The flu has existed since before your great grandmother was born. The flu has killed many millions of humans in its existence.  The cumulative damage of the flu far exceeds that of Covid, yet as I pointed out no one seems to give a shit about the flu. Half of those deaths could have been prevented from masking, but until 2020 no one in America would even consider wearing a mask even if they were actively sick.

That's something you see easily if you go to Japan. Since well before the pandemic it was common that the japaneese would wear a mask if they thought they were even marginally sick. But in America, you could be hurling vomit from infection and it would still be the standard to show up to work and shake everyone's hand.

[Westerly 61]

On 7/11/2021 at 11:58 PM, Baksteen said:

Correct, actually.

It's therefore in the rich countries best self-interest to stop hogging the vaccines and start making the vaccines available to second and third world countries.

 

 

The vaccines are sold by private firms who are welcome to sell their product to anyone they want. The government cannot legally restrict them from selling their product to other countries, nor would it.

[Baksteen 84]

4 hours ago, Westerly said:

The vaccines are sold by private firms who are welcome to sell their product to anyone they want. The government cannot legally restrict them from selling their product to other countries, nor would it.

That is technically true.
I meant indirectly, with rich countries buying up all the supply at high price before the poor countries have a chance.

Though I also vaguely remember one of the vaccines being in short supply because it was manufactured in the US and because the US would not release it until it's own demand was satisfied.

[billvon 2,995]

9 hours ago, Westerly said:

 I dident say per year. I was speaking in absolute terms. Covid has existed for one year. The flu has existed since before your great grandmother was born.

No, it really hasn't.

There are four influenza virus types today.  Three of then can infect humans.  They change with time.  The flu your great grandmother had is not the flu you had two years ago.

Quote

The cumulative damage of the flu far exceeds that of Covid, yet as I pointed out no one seems to give a shit about the flu.

Again, the fact that you are unaware that there are flu vaccines, or flu campaigns, is staggering.

Quote

 But in America, you could be hurling vomit from infection and it would still be the standard to show up to work and shake everyone's hand.

Nope.  Most companies tell you to stay home when you have the flu.  The CDC says to stay home when you are sick, and to wear a mask if you must be near other people.

You never answered the question I asked about what you do in the medical field.  From your answers I am starting to think it's more janitorial or clerical in nature.

 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

8 hours ago, Westerly said:

The vaccines are sold by private firms who are welcome to sell their product to anyone they want. The government cannot legally restrict them from selling their product to other countries, nor would it.

This is simply not true.

[JerryBaumchen 1,364]

Hi folks,

An interesting take on one US military base's position on the vax:  Because the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has authorized the COVID-19 vaccines for emergency use, and have not been fully approved, the military cannot legally mandate that all service members get the vaccine.

And:  Troops at an Alabama military base have been ordered to show proof that they've been vaccinated to be able to go without face masks on the premise.

Alabama military base orders troops to show vaccination proof amid increased COVID-19 cases (msn.com)

Jerry Baumchen

 

[TriGirl 319]

On 7/10/2021 at 7:52 PM, Westerly said:

also I’d add that medical conditions are not new. The flu is a leading cause of death amongs the elderly. Yet where was all the ‘think about others’ prior to COVID?

1) influenza has a lower death rate once infected (even amongst the elderly)

2) influenza does not spread as readily/easily as COVID

3) and in response to your final question -- we are all offered (and many of us take) flu vaccines every year, in order to mitigate the spread of influenza. Scientists agonize every year trying to predict which variant will be most prevalent, and do their best to develop the vaccine in time to protect the most people to the maximum extent. 

Your claim that "no one cared" prior to COVID is absurd.

[TriGirl 319]

2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

An interesting take on one US military base's position on the vax:  Because the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has authorized the COVID-19 vaccines for emergency use, and have not been fully approved, the military cannot legally mandate that all service members get the vaccine.

And:  Troops at an Alabama military base have been ordered to show proof that they've been vaccinated to be able to go without face masks on the premise.

Alabama military base orders troops to show vaccination proof amid increased COVID-19 cases (msn.com)

Jerry Baumchen

 

That's actually the DoD position.  Once the vaccines are given full authorization, they will be required by DoD.  But until then, the DoD (and DoS) rule is that only fully vaccinated personnel can go without masks.

However, the rule up to now has been a sort of "don't ask, don't tell" approach to people at work in government facilities -- at least on the State side. Vaccinated employees could drop the masks, but we couldn't ask anyone whether they had been vaccinated.  I had to deny entry to this country to military members who were not vaccinated, but had to approach it from another angle: our facilitation of DoD who wanted to come here was an exception, and would only be made for vaccinated personnel. I got some push-back ("it isn't our policy to pull someone from a team," or "we can't punish anyone who chooses not to take the vaccine"), but I countered with the fact that not being permitted to engage with a foreign force was not a punishment.  But refusing vaccination wasn't without consequences (not punishment). Luckily for my office, PNG is now only allowing vaccinated travelers to enter the country, so it's out of my hands!

Looks like this Alabama base is having an integrity issue.  Again, they're not saying everyone has to be vaccinated, but they are enforcing the "only vaccinated personnel can unmask" rule with more oversight.

[gowlerk 2,198]

On 7/14/2021 at 10:59 PM, TriGirl said:

Again, they're not saying everyone has to be vaccinated, but they are enforcing the "only vaccinated personnel can unmask" rule with more oversight.

When I ventured into a MN Walmart the rule posted was "mask no longer required for fully vaccinated people". Apparently 99% of MN residents are fully vaccinated. I saw only one masked person.

[headoverheels 333]

10 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

When I ventured into a MN Walmart the rule posted was "mask no longer required for fully vaccinated people". Apparently 99% of MN residents are fully vaccinated. I saw only one masked person.

I was at a lumber yard today.  16 people inside, I was the only one wearing a mask.  Nobody outside was either.  San Jose, California.   At two grocery stores and a liquor store, I only noticed one person without a mask.  We have gone back to having masks recommended for everyone indoors, vaccinated or not, because of upswing in cases.

[ryoder 1,590]

In places like the supermarket, the hardware, and big box stores, I'm guessing 15-20% of the customers are masked. Now among the employees, the percentage is a lot higher. I've been in convenience stores where all the employees were masked.

[Westerly 61]

 

 

4 hours ago, headoverheels said:

I was at a lumber yard today.  16 people inside, I was the only one wearing a mask.  Nobody outside was either.  San Jose, California.   At two grocery stores and a liquor store, I only noticed one person without a mask.  We have gone back to having masks recommended for everyone indoors, vaccinated or not, because of upswing in cases.

Great. Sounds like people are getting with the program. At this point people have made their choice. 99% of all new infections are among those who are unvaccinated. Get the shot or take your chances. The unvaccinated need to stop bringing down those of us who have made the smarter choice. Time to cut the dead weight and let them take the risks they so desperately want to take. They want to be on their own and do their own thing, so let them. Drop the masks and precautions and let nature sort things out. Everyone had a chance to protect themselves. They made their choice.

[Westerly 61]

 

On 7/14/2021 at 6:08 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

 Because the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has authorized the COVID-19 vaccines for emergency use, and have not been fully approved, the military cannot legally mandate that all service members get the vaccine.

 

 

LOL active duty servicemembers are government property and any so-called 'laws' dont apply when terms like 'national security' are involved. The military can order their troops to take the vaccine if they want. I understand why they havent yet, but the idea that 'they have no legal authorization' to mandate it is complete BS. The president and commanders of the military services can order literately anything without restriction if the order is in support of mission readiness. Hell, they can order that their troops are no longer legally authorized to consume alcohol or smoke if they wanted to (which is a real example that has actually occurred)...

(Moderator warning - Westerly has demonstrated that he is not a reliable source of information on COVID-19 and the issues surrounding it.)

[wmw999 2,452]

5 hours ago, Westerly said:

LOL active duty servicemembers are government property and any so-called 'laws' dont apply when terms like 'national security' are involved. The military can order their troops to take the vaccine if they want. I understand why they havent yet, but the idea that 'they have no legal authorization' to mandate it is complete BS.

Silly woman! What do women know about the military! You know much better than she does!

Oh -- did you know that Trigirl is career military?

Wendy P.

[ryoder 1,590]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Silly woman! What do women know about the military! You know much better than she does!

Oh -- did you know that Trigirl is career military?

Wendy P.

Let him dig his hole.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Well, the numbers don't lie.

40% of new cases are from 4 states.

20% (one in five) are in Florida.

 

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-hillsborough/feds-1-in-5-new-covid-19-cases-in-the-u-s-is-in-florida

 

Here in WI, the 7 day average has more than doubled. From mid-70s last week to around 150 the past couple days.

[ryoder 1,590]

11 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Well, the numbers don't lie.

40% of new cases are from 4 states.

20% (one in five) are in Florida.

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-hillsborough/feds-1-in-5-new-covid-19-cases-in-the-u-s-is-in-florida

Here in WI, the 7 day average has more than doubled. From mid-70s last week to around 150 the past couple days.

The Sturgis superspreader event begins August 6, so expect South Dakota to move up in the rankings.

[ryoder 1,590]

Appeals court allows CDC to enforce plan on resuming cruises

A setback for DeSantis and his buddy COVID-19.

[TriGirl 319]

On 7/17/2021 at 9:52 PM, wmw999 said:

On 7/17/2021 at 4:41 PM, Westerly said:

LOL active duty servicemembers are government property and any so-called 'laws' dont apply when terms like 'national security' are involved. The military can order their troops to take the vaccine if they want. I understand why they havent yet, but the idea that 'they have no legal authorization' to mandate it is complete BS.

Silly woman! What do women know about the military! You know much better than she does!

Oh -- did you know that Trigirl is career military?

Wendy P.

To be fair, Westerly's assessment was what I was told my first few years of service (early 90s).  We have evolved in the intervening years.

 

edited to add:  note the recent legal opinions allowing servicemembers to sue military medical facilities for malpractice.

Edited July 19, 2021 by TriGirl

[Baksteen 84]

On 7/17/2021 at 8:33 AM, Westerly said:

 

 

Great. Sounds like people are getting with the program. At this point people have made their choice. 99% of all new infections are among those who are unvaccinated. Get the shot or take your chances. The unvaccinated need to stop bringing down those of us who have made the smarter choice. Time to cut the dead weight and let them take the risks they so desperately want to take. They want to be on their own and do their own thing, so let them. Drop the masks and precautions and let nature sort things out. Everyone had a chance to protect themselves. They made their choice.

As you yourself correctly remarked above, the virus may mutate in people who are not vaccinated.
You were talking about entire nations, but the same holds true within nations in which not enough people are vaccinated.
That might mean that a mutation arises for which the vaccines becomes less effective.

 

Also, if you are vaccinated, you can still get it - and spread it.

You just have a way lower chance of becoming hospitalised or dying.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

6 hours ago, Baksteen said:

...Also, if you are vaccinated, you can still get it - and spread it.

You just have a way lower chance of becoming hospitalized or dying.

You can still get sick, but you have a much lower chance of getting it, in addition to the 'way lower' chance of ending up in the hospital or morgue.

[ryoder 1,590]

A federal judge upholds Indiana University’s vaccination requirement for students.

Common sense prevails.

[ryoder 1,590]

Has the Fox propaganda machine decided encouraging their viewers to die isn't such a good idea after all???

Hannity: 'I believe in the science of vaccination'

 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

2 hours ago, ryoder said:

Has the Fox propaganda machine decided encouraging their viewers to die isn't such a good idea after all???

Hannity: 'I believe in the science of vaccination'

 

I have a feeling the lawyers said they needed a soundbite for court.