covid-19

[olofscience 489]

2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Yes - he was spitballing ideas - not a very prudent action - 

The press would have you believe that he did it maliciously.  Jakee too.

 

Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

I never assumed malice with Trump's statements, and so far I haven't seen any articles that say he was malicious. However, he is very very fucking stupid - see Hanlon's razor above.

[jakee 1,561]

10 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Yes - he was spitballing ideas - not a very prudent action - 

Yes, he was spitballing ideas - something which gives the lie to your earlier claim that they weren't his ideas, and he was passing on what the scientists had told him they were going to do. I haven't seen you admit you were wrong about that yet either. Come on, man up and do it.

Quote

The press would have you believe that he did it maliciously.  Jakee too.

You are lying. I have not once stated or suggested that he did it with the intention of hurting anyone. If you have a shred of integrity you will admit you were wrong and apologise now.

 

You are also still lying about the press. They and I would have you believe he did it out of ignorance and stupidity, not maliciousness. And they are absolutely right.

 

In fact, the one person who claimed he did do it maliciously? Trump himself, whose official position on the matter is that he said it sarcastically to reporters he hated just to 'see what would happen'. If it was true, that would be fucking malicious. But surprise suprise, who is it that you are defending?

Edited April 29, 2020 by jakee

[kallend 2,106]

42 minutes ago, jakee said:

You don't have to deal with them. Doctors have to deal with them. Doctors were appalled at what Trump said. Doctors were right.

The manufacturer of Lysol also felt the need to issue a press release dealing with it. Poison control centers had to deal with it too.

Yes, there's stupidity - the stupidity of anyone who chooses to act on anything the liar-in-chief says.

[turtlespeed 226]

6 minutes ago, jakee said:

Yes, he was spitballing ideas - something which gives the lie to your earlier claim that they weren't his ideas, and he was passing on what the scientists had told him they were going to do. I haven't seen you admit you were wrong about that yet either. Come on, man up and do it.

You are lying. I have not once stated or suggested that he did it with the intention of hurting anyone. If you have a shred of integrity you will admit you were wrong and apologise now.

 

You are also still lying about the press. They and I would have you believe he did it out of ignorance and stupidity, not maliciousness. And they are absolutely right.

 

In fact, the one person who claimed he did do it maliciously? Trump himself, whose official position on the matter is that he said it sarcastically to reporters he hated just to 'see what would happen'. If it was true, that would be fucking malicious. But surprise suprise, who is it that you are defending?

You do understand the word "Suggesting"?  correct?

You are deliberately misunderstanding what I am saying. and at this point, you might as well stop.  you are at the end of the discussion.

 

[DJL 235]

23 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Yes - he was spitballing ideas - not a very prudent action - 

The press would have you believe that he did it maliciously.  Jakee too.

The legend has certainly grown.  I'll put it on par with pushing a suggestion that we should buy Greenland (caused diplomatic riff resulting in cancelled talks), nuking hurricanes (simply stupid), windmills causing cancer (deliberate misinformation),  water filled moats on the Southern border with alligators and spiked walls (they actually pursued estimates but probably not on the reptiles)... the list goes on.  He says shit like this so don't get mad when he gets shot down immediately, just enjoy the memes. 

[kallend 2,106]

7 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

You do understand the word "Suggesting"?  correct?

You are deliberately misunderstanding what I am saying. and at this point, you might as well stop.  you are at the end of the discussion.

 

It's Trump's standard MO; he never directly instructs people to do stupid, dangerous or illegal things.  As previously stated, he floats an idea knowing full well that his true believers WILL act on it.  We saw this at his campaign rallies, we see this with his "I've heard it said..." and "people are saying...." ploys.  Then he can play the innocent when the outcomes are negative.

Surely you can see this.

[jakee 1,561]

13 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

You do understand the word "Suggesting"?  correct?

You are deliberately misunderstanding what I am saying. and at this point, you might as well stop.  you are at the end of the discussion.

You are utterly spineless.

 

The press did not suggest that Trump instructed people to inject themselves with bleach. You're too stubborn to simply admit you were wrong so now you're lying to cover it up.

 

Neither the press nor I would have you believe that he was being malicious when he was talking about the possibility of injecting disinfectant. That is a lie that you're too weaselly to admit or apologise for.

 

And again as you pointed out - he was spitballing ideas, not repeating what any scientist or doctor told him. That was an entirely false suggestion you made that you are just too proud to admit was something you simply made up.

 

Why do you do this to yourself?

[turtlespeed 226]

4 minutes ago, kallend said:

It's Trump's standard MO; he never directly instructs people to do stupid, dangerous or illegal things.  As previously stated, he floats an idea knowing full well that his true believers WILL act on it.  We saw this at his campaign rallies, we see this with his "I've heard it said..." and "people are saying...." ploys.  Then he can play the innocent when the outcomes are negative.

Surely you can see this.

I can see it somewhat, but I don't think it is as intentional as you would have me believe.

I simply don't think he has that much forethought.  I think he just doesn't have a filter between his mouth and his idea box.

I concede that it is cringe worthy in a lot of cases.

[turtlespeed 226]

2 minutes ago, jakee said:

You are utterly spineless.

. . . and you enjoy personal insults entirely too much.

You should stop spending your days and nights trying to get a rise out of me.  The obsession isn't healthy.

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by turtlespeed

[kallend 2,106]

6 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I can see it somewhat, but I don't think it is as intentional as you would have me believe.

I simply don't think he has that much forethought.  I think he just doesn't have a filter between his mouth and his idea box.

I concede that it is cringe worthy in a lot of cases.

Of course it's intentional.

[turtlespeed 226]

1 minute ago, kallend said:

Of course it's intentional.

We will have to agree that we disagree on that.

I think you are assigning too much credit.

Edited April 29, 2020 by turtlespeed

[jakee 1,561]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

. . . and you enjoy personal insults entirely too much.

You should stop spending your days and nights trying to get a rise out of me.  

I'm just saying what I see. What I'm trying to do is get you to be honest. I don't see why you conflate admitting you were wrong with rising to something. Maybe that explains why you can't do it, that you think it's somehow shameful but really it's the opposite that's true. If you admitted to the provably false things you've been saying and the intentional lies I just listed you might actually earn a shred of respect. If you keep dodging and lying allover again to avoid admitting you were clearly wrong then you'll just keep looking as bad as you do.

 

By the way, have you seen how many people on here accuse you of trolling? Looking for a rise is your gig.

[jakee 1,561]

9 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I can see it somewhat, but I don't think it is as intentional as you would have me believe.

I simply don't think he has that much forethought.  I think he just doesn't have a filter between his mouth and his idea box.

I concede that it is cringe worthy in a lot of cases.

Which again begs the question, why have you spent so much time defending it? You said he was repeating what he was told. You said the ideas were worth investigating. You said he was trying to bring people hope. If what you realy think is that it was just his normal crazy stream of consciousness why did you make up all of that other stuff?

[Phil1111 1,149]

24 minutes ago, jakee said:

You are utterly spineless.

It's not a matter of spine. Turtle used the example of wanting a president with a "spine" in the Joe thread yesterday.

Turtle is like trump and like trump's followers. Its part of the populist ideology of Putin, Duterte, etc. They pick enemies to blame, choose both sides of an argument, never accept responsibility and facts are never, never discussed.

Don't try to argue facts with a trump populist. Its like trying to shake hands with an octopus.

[gowlerk 2,249]

49 minutes ago, kallend said:

Surely you can see this.

Now that's funny John.

[turtlespeed 226]

31 minutes ago, jakee said:

Which again begs the question, why have you spent so much time defending it? You said he was repeating what he was told. You said the ideas were worth investigating. You said he was trying to bring people hope. If what you realy think is that it was just his normal crazy stream of consciousness why did you make up all of that other stuff?

Well, because it can be all of those things.

Try not to be so single minded.

[jakee 1,561]

43 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Well, because it can be all of those things.

It can't be all of those things. Some of them are mutually exclusive. But seriously, come on - are you still claiming that it wasn't his idea, and that he said what he did because his scientific advisors told him that was what they were doing? For real?

 

And by the way, I answered your question about Trump and chemo drugs but you never answered mine. Since you think it's plausible and worthwhile to investigate whether UV light and disinfectant can be used as treatments for viruses they kill, why do you think it hasn't already happened? Why don't we already treat any other viruses with UV light or bleach therapy? I asked you that several times and you dodged each and every one so come one, let's have it.

 

Quote

Try not to be so single minded.

This entire conversation is revolving around your single minded insistence on reading the absolute worst possible meaning into everything the media says - to the point where you have to insist that "Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment" actually means "Outcry after Trump instructs people to self inject bleach" even though it is a clear and obvious lie.

[JerryBaumchen 1,432]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

Of course it's intentional.

Hi John,

As I have posted before; Roy Cohn taught him well.

Jerry Baumchen

[DougH 270]

I guess I should have expected this thread to devolve into this typical exchange by page 74. And we started off right.

This is why SC can't have nice things.

[billvon 3,067]

4 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Show me the text where he suggested people should inject themselves with chemicals then.

 

You can't, because he didn't.

You are getting pretty bad with the trolling.

[ryoder 1,590]

13 minutes ago, DougH said:

I guess I should have expected this thread to devolve into this typical exchange by page 74. And we started off right.

This is why SC can't have nice things.

But we do have nice things, for example the Ignore List.

Unfortunately, not enough people make use if it.

[normiss 848]

25 minutes ago, ryoder said:

But we do have nice things, for example the Ignore List.

Unfortunately, not enough people make use if it.

I like the reminders of seeing comments quoted in replies that I've ignored someone, and why.

[billvon 3,067]

27 minutes ago, ryoder said:

But we do have nice things, for example the Ignore List.

Unfortunately, not enough people make use if it.

Good point, and I could do a better job reminding people of its existence.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

6 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

He did NOT, however, instruct anyone to inject or ingest bleach. <Face Palm>

He didn't instruct, he suggested. I also haven't seen any reputable media saying Trump instructed people to do so. Why are you constantly building strawman arguments to defend Trump?

"I see disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning"

[jakee 1,561]

22 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

He didn't instruct, he suggested. I also haven't seen any reputable media saying Trump instructed people to do so. Why are you constantly building strawman arguments to defend Trump?

Turtle is hanging his hat on two things.

 

1) We, and the media, can only reply to the strictest possible literal reading of what Trump said, and make crystal clear in news headlines and our posts about it that we are not implying he meant anything beyond that strict reading.

 

2) He gets to interpret news headlines in the loosest possible sense, and infer that malicious falsehoods against Trump are being intended, even when the headline does not actually say it, and nothing else in the coverage or article supports the inference.

 

Thus, he gets to bitch and whine that the media are falsely claiming that Trump instructed people to inject themselves with bleach because Trump did not say that, even though the media also did not say that. 

 

And he thinks he's being clever.