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gowlerk

The Trump recession

By gowlerk, in Speakers Corner

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wmw999    2,534

wmw999
  On 5/19/2020 at 1:33 PM, DJL said:

I think it's important to agree that any response we had was wrong.  That's because this was a first shot deal and we were never going to do everything perfectly right.  So, that leaves us with making a decision based upon the best information available to us and sticking with it.  The lessons we learn from this will be available for the next occasion which could be 5 years from now or another 100.

I would alter that to say that a plan is only as good as the input data, and once you have new information, you have to re evaluate and maybe change the plan. So “sticking with it” might not be appropriate, but having way to change it and document it, rather than just winging it. 
Wendy P. 

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Coreece    190

Coreece
  On 5/19/2020 at 2:18 PM, kallend said:

"This crisis must serve as a wake-up call and a call to action for business and government to think, act and invest for the common good and confront the structural obstacles that have inhibited inclusive economic growth for years.”

More like decades. . .

. . .and I'm sure Biden is just the guy to lead blacks to the promised land, just like last decade, and the decade before that, and the decade before that.

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JerryBaumchen    1,434

JerryBaumchen
  On 5/19/2020 at 3:59 PM, Coreece said:

. . .and I'm sure Biden is just the guy to lead blacks to the promised land, just like last decade, and the decade before that, and the decade before that.

Hi Coreece,

He damn sure will get them closer than Trump ever will.

Closer is better than farther away.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Personally, I've never seen any 'promised land.'

 

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Coreece    190

Coreece
  On 5/19/2020 at 4:22 PM, JerryBaumchen said:
  On 5/19/2020 at 3:59 PM, Coreece said:

. . .and I'm sure Biden is just the guy to lead blacks to the promised land, just like last decade, and the decade before that, and the decade before that.

Hi Coreece,

He damn sure will get them closer than Trump ever will.

https://www.factsnotmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/biden-is-the-swamp-e1559063654160.jpg

 

  On 5/19/2020 at 4:22 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Personally, I've never seen any 'promised land.'

Nope, but I hear plenty have seen prison - due in part to biden's lack of foresight.

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billvon    3,068

billvon
  On 5/19/2020 at 4:31 PM, Coreece said:

Nope, but I hear plenty have seen prison - due in part to biden's lack of foresight.

And with Trump we have plenty of people in prison - due directly to his actions.  (And we have 90,000 Americans dead due to his lack of foresight.)

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wolfriverjoe    1,523

wolfriverjoe
  On 5/19/2020 at 1:33 PM, DJL said:

I think it's important to agree that any response we had was wrong.  That's because this was a first shot deal and we were never going to do everything perfectly right.  So, that leaves us with making a decision based upon the best information available to us and sticking with it.  The lessons we learn from this will be available for the next occasion which could be 5 years from now or another 100.

That's not entirely correct.

We had the SARS outbreak in 03 and the H1N1 (Swine flu) in 09. I'm not going to include Ebola in this because the transmission of it is a LOT more difficult.

Both were handled reasonably well, although neither was as intense as this.

There was a 'after critique' of both, and some lessons learned from SARS were used against Swine flu.

There was a plan in place, and a response team organized.

The plan was tossed a while back, along with everything Trump associated with Obama, because he seems to think anything Obama did was 'tainted.'

The respoinse team was disbanded a couple years ago, and a few infectious disease experts noted how bad of an idea this was.

 

And it's hard to imagine the decisions made by those in charge being any worse than the ones that were made in January & February. 
Pretending it will all 'just go away'. 
Touting drugs that have marginal, anectodal evidence that they are effective, and firing experts who disagree. Muzzling other scientists and doctors.
Allowing travel to & from infected areas. China was shut down, but not until the west coast was infected. Europe wasn't shut down even though Italy & Spain were infected quite badly. 

We could have had a far, far, faaaaaaaar less bad outbreak if those in charge had made decisons based on acutal science. 

But, alas, no. 

We had Mr "I'm Not Responsible".

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Coreece    190

Coreece
  On 5/19/2020 at 5:15 PM, billvon said:
  On 5/19/2020 at 4:31 PM, Coreece said:

Nope, but I hear plenty have seen prison - due in part to biden's lack of foresight.

And with Trump we have plenty of people in prison - due directly to his actions.  (And we have 90,000 Americans dead due to his lack of foresight.)

OK, so it's ridiculous for Biden to run on his record of helping blacks just as it's ridiculous for Trump to boast about his covid response.

And your analogy is broken.  Trump didn't create the virus that caused those deaths like Biden who drafted the violent crime bill that unnecessarily and disproportionately imprisoned blacks for excessive terms, some even for life sentences.

And I'm not even sure if it was Biden's lack of foresight or just deliberate ignorance of the consequences.  We know Clinton spoke against the dangers with the 100-1 rule weeks before signing the violent crime act into law, knowing full well that it was never removed from the bill.

 

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JerryBaumchen    1,434

JerryBaumchen
  On 5/19/2020 at 6:20 PM, Coreece said:

OK, so it's ridiculous for Biden to run on his record of helping blacks

Hi Coreece,

If your argument is that Biden has not help blacks, then why do so many of them support him & not Trump?

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Ever think about taking off your Trump-colored glasses?

 

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billvon    3,068

billvon
  On 5/19/2020 at 6:20 PM, Coreece said:

OK, so it's ridiculous for Biden to run on his record of helping blacks just as it's ridiculous for Trump to boast about his covid response.

Nope.  Biden did work for blacks.  He can (rightly) tout his voting record - voting for programs that benefit minority businesses, voting to continue affirmative action, and his support of the Rosa Parks memorial.  He's gotten a 78% rating from the Human Rights Campaign and a 100% rating from the NAACP, which are perhaps better versed in Biden's role in helping blacks than you are.

Now, you can disagree and say "I think that XXX means he DOESN'T support blacks."  That's fine. But given his track record, he can make a good argument that he does support black causes - and the NAACP agrees with him.

  Quote

And your analogy is broken.  Trump didn't create the virus that caused those deaths like Biden who drafted the violent crime bill that unnecessarily and disproportionately imprisoned blacks for excessive terms, some even for life sentences.

The analogy is still quite excellent.  Trump didn't create the virus.  Biden didn't commit the crimes.

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Guest   

Guest
(edited)
  On 5/19/2020 at 1:33 PM, DJL said:

I think it's important to agree that any response we had was wrong.  That's because this was a first shot deal and we were never going to do everything perfectly right.  So, that leaves us with making a decision based upon the best information available to us and sticking with it.  The lessons we learn from this will be available for the next occasion which could be 5 years from now or another 100.

 

  On 5/18/2020 at 11:03 PM, billvon said:

Have a common plan of attack.  Let each state implement it their own way.

Of course.  There are places that haven't seen it yet, or are so small that the .3% of people who die will make up a small absolute number.  There are places where the vast majority of people are the demographic most resistant to the disease.  There are places where the normal separation of people is significant and thus gets the Re number below 1 without any big shutdowns.

If we come out of this with the idea that "well, no one knows what to do, New Zealand's plan won't work for us, South Korea's plan won't work for us, our response was fine, just repoen as fast as possible" then the next one will be just as bad if not worse.

Interesting statistics attached here. I don't know how accurate this table is because it came from Fox News and we all know what lying, motherfucking, racist, bigoted, homophobic pieces of shit they are. In truth, I'd like to learn where they got these stats and if they are legitimate.

foxbanner-20200519.jpg

Edited by Guest

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normiss    848

normiss
  On 5/19/2020 at 8:43 PM, markharju said:

 

Interesting statistics attached here. I don't know how accurate this table is because it came from Fox News and we all know what lying, motherfucking, racist, bigoted, homophobic pieces of shit they are. In truth, I'd like to learn where they got these stats and if they are legitimate.

foxbanner-20200519.jpg

Florida will fire your ass for reporting factual data regarding Corona deaths.

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billvon    3,068

billvon
  On 5/19/2020 at 9:32 PM, markharju said:

That makes no sense at all. Is the data from Florida BS?

It's certainly under-reported.   From WFTV-9:

=====================

But 9 Investigates uncovered a discrepancy in the way coronavirus deaths are recorded, and the Florida Department of Health is underreporting the actual number of people who have died from COVID-19 in Orange and Osceola counties.

9 Investigates requested the list of COVID-19 deaths from the medical examiner’s office several days in a row, and noticed that something seemed off: The numbers were a lot higher on that list than what the department of Health was reporting.

=====================

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Guest
  On 5/19/2020 at 10:10 PM, billvon said:

It's certainly under-reported.   From WFTV-9:

=====================

But 9 Investigates uncovered a discrepancy in the way coronavirus deaths are recorded, and the Florida Department of Health is underreporting the actual number of people who have died from COVID-19 in Orange and Osceola counties.

9 Investigates requested the list of COVID-19 deaths from the medical examiner’s office several days in a row, and noticed that something seemed off: The numbers were a lot higher on that list than what the department of Health was reporting.

=====================

I expect such obfuscation from countries like China and Iran. If this is true, some heads had better roll.

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billvon    3,068

billvon
  On 5/19/2020 at 10:16 PM, markharju said:

I expect such obfuscation from countries like China and Iran. If this is true, some heads had better roll.

There are a great many people/businesses with a VERY vested interest in making the numbers look low.  Not too surprising that we are seeing this.

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Phil1111    1,149

Phil1111
  On 5/20/2020 at 6:08 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

He is probably trying to get ahead of Nixon.  You know; the old 'I'm better than . . . '

Jerry Baumchen

Keep in mind that those were the convictions that arose without the benefit of testimony under oath. trump and the others where trump falsely claimed privilege didn't have to testify. That ends in 245 days.

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lummy    4

lummy
(edited)
  On 5/19/2020 at 8:43 PM, markharju said:

 

Interesting statistics attached here. I don't know how accurate this table is because it came from Fox News and we all know what lying, motherfucking, racist, bigoted, homophobic pieces of shit they are. In truth, I'd like to learn where they got these stats and if they are legitimate.

foxbanner-20200519.jpg

Lots of misleading information and outright lies in this

For example, CA tax rate of 13.3% only applies to people making over 1million per year.
 As others have noted, some states (FL and GA are purposely misrepresenting Covid case and death #'s

 

The graphic also does not take into account Tx 45b pension debt, nor does it take into account that FL and TX receive a disproportionate share of federal aid

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Texas-Gov-Abbott-infographic-COVID-19-Newsom-15278727.php

Think there's a reason Gov Abbot deleted his retweet of this? Hmmmmmm........

 

Edited by lummy

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