COVID-19: Astroturfing the "reopen" demonstrations

[turtlespeed 220]

1 minute ago, jakee said:

Once again Turtle - stop lying, stop trolling, stop pretending you can't remember the things you said only one page ago.

 

You were selling the line that since the media are criticising the Georgia governor and not the Colorado governor, it must be because of anti-Republican bias. But it isn't. It's because the Georgia governor's plan is irresponsible and reckless and the Colorado governor's plan is not. And now we're in a situation where even Donald Trump can admit that, but you can't. Just think about what that says for your claims of trying to be as neutral as possible.

That is mostly true - 

I say mostly because you can't deny the bias.

I will agree that I was overly presumptuous on the extent of the bias.

When I looked further into the plan, as it was written and detailed, and not just the speech given, I agreed with it less and less.  The premise is still good.  It simply needs to be less aggressive.

[jakee 1,497]

3 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I say mostly because you can't deny the bias.

Why not? The plan is bad. The plan is heavily criticised for being bad. The headlines reflect that.

 

Where is the bias?

[Phil1111 1,149]

11 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

That is mostly true - 

I say mostly because you can't deny the bias.

I will agree that I was overly presumptuous on the extent of the bias.

When I looked further into the plan, as it was written and detailed, and not just the speech given, I agreed with it less and less.  The premise is still good.  It simply needs to be less aggressive.

 

5 minutes ago, jakee said:

Why not? The plan is bad. The plan is heavily criticised for being bad. The headlines reflect that.

 

Where is the bias?

Cue the Charlie Daniels Band The Devil Went Down to Georgia  Because C-19 is going to bring hell to Georgia.

Singapore Seemed to Have Coronavirus Under Control, Until Cases Doubled 

Singapore did almost everything right.

After recording its first coronavirus case on Jan. 23, the prosperous city-state meticulously traced the close contacts of every infected patient, while keeping a sense of normalcy on its streets. Borders were shut to populations likely to carry the contagion, although businesses stayed open. Ample testing and treatment were free for residents....

If anything, the trials of this intensely urban, hyper-international country hint at a global future in which travel is taboo, borders are shut, quarantines endure and industries like tourism and entertainment are battered. Weddings, funerals and graduation parties will have to wait. Vulnerable populations, such as migrants, cannot be ignored."

"Trump's administration continued to allow foreign workers to enter and even eased requirements for immigrants to get certain jobs, such as farmworkers, landscapers and crab pickers, and altered some paperwork mandates, including allowing electronic signatures and waiving the physical inspection of documents.

On Friday, the administration temporarily removed some limitations on agricultural workers, including allowing them to stay in the United States beyond the three years' maximum limit."

[SkyDekker 1,465]

3 hours ago, jakee said:

Where is the bias?

It is with Turtle and many other Americans. They have been trained to support the idea that all media is biased and nefariously so. 

[billvon 2,995]

4 hours ago, jakee said:

Why not? The plan is bad. The plan is heavily criticised for being bad. The headlines reflect that.

Where is the bias?

They do not support a republican decision so they are biased.  It's pretty much the standard for any GOP media discussion these days.

[turtlespeed 220]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

They do not support a republican decision so they are biased.  It's pretty much the standard for any GOP media discussion these days.

You aren't entirely wrong.

The left media lets you know how you should feel, and what you should fight for - you trust them, so you put your mind behind it.

There are a lot of people that do the same on the right.

 

[jakee 1,497]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

You aren't entirely wrong.

The left media lets you know how you should feel, and what you should fight for - you trust them, so you put your mind behind it.

There are a lot of people that do the same on the right.

Like you. Fox news told you the 'left media' were being biased about Georgia and you believed them. And you still believe them despite not being able to identify what was said that was biased.

 

Surely the irony here is clear to you - that it was your trust in a partisan media source that caused you to call out imaginary bias in stories from a different media source... and now you're compounding the error by calling out other people for being too trusting in the media. 

 

Have you ever sen a hole you didn't think needed to be dug any deeper?

Edited April 23, 2020 by jakee

[Phil1111 1,149]

7 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

That is mostly true - 

I say mostly because you can't deny the bias.

I will agree that I was overly presumptuous on the extent of the bias.

When I looked further into the plan, as it was written and detailed, and not just the speech given, I agreed with it less and less.  The premise is still good.  It simply needs to be less aggressive.

Did your dog help interpret the trump plan? Why would a former dog breeder help oversee a pandemic response? 

As recently as late February, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar was trying to persuade the public that he was in charge of the official Trump administration task force combating the coronavirus crisis. The fact that he considered such an effort necessary was emblematic of the cabinet secretary's uncertain role on the team....

Shortly after his televised comments, Azar tapped a trusted aide with minimal public health experience to lead the agency's day-to-day response to COVID-19. The aide, Brian Harrison, had joined the department after running a dog-breeding business for six years. Five sources say some officials in the White House derisively called him "the dog breeder."

The Reuters report added that the 37-year-old aide has "no formal education in public health, management, or medicine." Harrison had a variety of stints working for then-Vice President Dick Cheney, the Department of Defense, and a D.C. public-relations company, before running what his HHS bio describes as "a small business in Texas." That business, evidently, was Dallas Labradoodles."

This is the answer why SC is all about trump bashing. Fifty thousand deaths in America and a Labradoodle breeder, oh plus trump, is put in charge.

[turtlespeed 220]

4 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Did your dog help interpret the trump plan? Why would a former dog breeder help oversee a pandemic response? 

As recently as late February, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar was trying to persuade the public that he was in charge of the official Trump administration task force combating the coronavirus crisis. The fact that he considered such an effort necessary was emblematic of the cabinet secretary's uncertain role on the team....

Shortly after his televised comments, Azar tapped a trusted aide with minimal public health experience to lead the agency's day-to-day response to COVID-19. The aide, Brian Harrison, had joined the department after running a dog-breeding business for six years. Five sources say some officials in the White House derisively called him "the dog breeder."

The Reuters report added that the 37-year-old aide has "no formal education in public health, management, or medicine." Harrison had a variety of stints working for then-Vice President Dick Cheney, the Department of Defense, and a D.C. public-relations company, before running what his HHS bio describes as "a small business in Texas." That business, evidently, was Dallas Labradoodles."

This is the answer why SC is all about trump bashing. Fifty thousand deaths in America and a Labradoodle breeder, oh plus trump, is put in charge.

What did any of that have to do with the governor of Georgia’s plan to reopen / 

it seems like you can take marshmallows and somehow twist them into a trump bash. 
 

[kallend 2,027]

8 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

What did any of that have to do with the governor of Georgia’s plan to reopen / 

it seems like you can take marshmallows and somehow twist them into a trump bash. 
 

The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES is demonstrating total incompetence in managing the biggest crisis in generations and you are whining that people are commenting on this? 

Go inject some disinfectant or stick a UV lamp up your ass and see how it works out. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

16 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

... Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar was trying to persuade the public that he was in charge ...

... to lead the agency's day-to-day response to COVID-19. ...

... the 37-year-old aide has "no formal education in public health, management, or medicine." ...

This is the answer why SC is all about trump bashing. Fifty thousand deaths in America and a Labradoodle breeder, oh plus trump, is put in charge.

 

11 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

What did any of that have to do with the governor of Georgia’s plan to reopen / 

it seems like you can take marshmallows and somehow twist them into a trump bash. 
 

The official in charge day to day of the Fed CDC with extensive Labradoodle experience. Is the one that has to distribute Lysol to Georgia. He has to come up with the counter-arguments to "The parent company of Lysol and another disinfectant warned Friday that its products should not be used as an internal treatment for the coronavirus after President Donald Trump wondered about the prospect during a White House briefing."

Why do you hate America so much? This is what happened to trump when he tried the UV on himself.

[turtlespeed 220]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES is demonstrating total incompetence in managing the biggest crisis in generations and you are whining that people are commenting on this? 

Go inject some disinfectant or stick a UV lamp up your ass and see how it works out. 

Are you mad, Bro?

 

[turtlespeed 220]

25 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

 

The official in charge day to day of the Fed CDC with extensive Labradoodle experience. Is the one that has to distribute Lysol to Georgia. He has to come up with the counter-arguments to "The parent company of Lysol and another disinfectant warned Friday that its products should not be used as an internal treatment for the coronavirus after President Donald Trump wondered about the prospect during a White House briefing."

Why do you hate America so much? This is what happened to trump when he tried the UV on himself.

If you saw the same video I did just now, 

1) The headline on the article you posted is more than a bit misleading.  Nice bias!! Trump didnt suggest injections - he said the concept was interesting.

2) It is pretty obvious that someone briefed him on the things that were being tested, and would be tested as possible treatments.  He found those possibilities interesting.

3) If you really think that you should inject Lysol after those comments, you need more help, and better education.

4) I find it interesting, and would like to see the outcomes of UV light experiments.  I'm sure this comes from the scientific fact that UV is used to disinfect water, and surrounding air from contaminants.

5) Please show further proof that the picture was what actually resulted as an effect when Trump tried the UV.  It doesn't seem credible.

https://kitchenventilation.com/2019/09/26/ultraviolet-lights-or-uv-c-lights-in-kitchen-exhaust-systems/

 

[olofscience 480]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

2) It is pretty obvious that someone briefed him on the things that were being tested, and would be tested as possible treatments.  He found those possibilities interesting.

No they would not be tested as that would kill people.

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

4) I find it interesting, and would like to see the outcomes of UV light experiments.  I'm sure this comes from the scientific fact that UV is used to disinfect water, and surrounding air from contaminants.

No, these as well will not be tested, and please don't be interested in seeing people die. UV light on unprotected human tissue cases severe burns and cell death. Those who survive will have a highly increased risk of cancer.

UV is used to disinfect water because it is very damaging to DNA and RNA which bacteria and viruses have. If you take something that destroys DNA it's not very good for you.

 

If you take it at low enough dose it might be okay, but then it wouldn't have any effect on the coronavirus.

[jakee 1,497]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

2) It is pretty obvious that someone briefed him on the things that were being tested, and would be tested as possible treatments.  He found those possibilities interesting.

No, that's not true. It is obvious that no-one is testing using UV light and disinfectant on people as cures for Covid-19. It is obvious that Trump was briefed on studies of the effect of UV light and disinfectant on the transmission of the virus, i.e. killing it when it is on surfaces or in saliva droplets (this is the information he was presenting when he went on his tangent). It is obvious that he, himself, all on his own, decided that it would therefore be a good idea to investigate the internal application of UV light and disinfectant on human people. The reason this is obvious is because he stood up behind a podium in the White House and he fucking said so.

 

Why is it that you're up here defending him against purported misrepresentation before you've even found out what he said? Is it your desperation to always find a way to argue against the biased leftist commentators, is it your sheer laziness, or is it a combination of the two?

 

Quote

4) I find it interesting, and would like to see the outcomes of UV light experiments.  I'm sure this comes from the scientific fact that UV is used to disinfect water, and surrounding air from contaminants.

UV light of sufficient intensity kills pretty much anything that has the capacity to infect you. Viruses, bacteria, funguses, parasites, everything. Some are more vulnerable, others less, but fundamentally it will kill everything. Even if you can't see the prima facie stupidity of suggesting direct UV exposure to internal tissue as a cure, can you not take the moment to stop and think before commenting as to why it is that UV is not already used as a cure for everything infectious, if it was possible to use it as a cure for Covid?

 

Again, why are you so desperate to defend Trump that you can't even engage the most basic logic circuits before spouting off?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

If you saw the same video I did just now, 

1) The headline on the article you posted is more than a bit misleading.  Nice bias!! Trump didnt suggest injections - he said the concept was interesting.

2) It is pretty obvious that someone briefed him on the things that were being tested, and would be tested as possible treatments.  He found those possibilities interesting.

3) If you really think that you should inject Lysol after those comments, you need more help, and better education.

4) I find it interesting, and would like to see the outcomes of UV light experiments.  I'm sure this comes from the scientific fact that UV is used to disinfect water, and surrounding air from contaminants.

5) Please show further proof that the picture was what actually resulted as an effect when Trump tried the UV.  It doesn't seem credible.

https://kitchenventilation.com/2019/09/26/ultraviolet-lights-or-uv-c-lights-in-kitchen-exhaust-systems/

 

Thank you for pointing out why it is so incredibly damaging when people in a position of power say things that are not grounded in fact. Most people are simply not smart enough to understand it is complete bullshit.

[jakee 1,497]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

1) The headline on the article you posted is more than a bit misleading.  Nice bias!! Trump didnt suggest injections - he said the concept was interesting.

It is a flat out lie to say the headline of the article is misleading. "Don’t Inject Disinfectants, Lysol Warns as Trump Raises Idea"

 

Trump absolutely, 100% positively did raise the idea of injecting disinfectant as a treatment for Covid-19. Lysol absolutely have warned against injecting disinfectants in response to Trump's speech. There is nothing misleading about the headline. There is nothing biased about it. It is ludicrously biased for you to be here defending Trump on this and repeatedly lying in order to do so.

[turtlespeed 220]

11 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Thank you for pointing out why it is so incredibly damaging when people in a position of power say things that are not grounded in fact. Most people are simply not smart enough to understand it is complete bullshit.

Most people are, and can see where an interest in something doesn't mean you must go shoot up with Lysol.

I must say that that is definitely an interesting way to look down on people, though.

[ryoder 1,590]

[turtlespeed 220]

1 minute ago, jakee said:

It is a flat out lie to say the headline of the article is misleading. "Don’t Inject Disinfectants, Lysol Warns as Trump Raises Idea"

 

Trump absolutely, 100% positively did raise the idea of injecting disinfectant as a treatment for Covid-19. Lysol absolutely have warned against injecting disinfectants in response to Trump's speech. There is nothing misleading about the headline. There is nothing biased about it. It is ludicrously biased for you to be here defending Trump on this and repeatedly lying in order to do so.

Absolutely not.  He did not raise the idea.  The idea was presented to him as a probable future test - You did see him conferring with someone off camera, didn't you?

 

Go back and watch - he was confirming what others were giving him as information.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Most people are, and can see where an interest in something doesn't mean you must go shoot up with Lysol.

I must say that that is definitely an interesting way to look down on people, though.

Right, that's why we get comments about interest in UV light for personal treatment......

[jakee 1,497]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

Most people are, and can see where an interest in something doesn't mean you must go shoot up with Lysol.

I must say that that is definitely an interesting way to look down on people, though.

We already know that people died from poisoning themselves thinking they were following Trump's advice on Hydroxychloroquine. Given that you agree the suggestion of disinfectant treatment is complete bullshit, and given that we have already seen that there are people out there who are credulous enough to follow his medical suggestions, how can you still defend what he said?

 

I guess you're looking down on those people and figuring they're just too stupid to live. Nice one.

[turtlespeed 220]

1 hour ago, olofscience said:

No they would not be tested as that would kill people.

No, these as well will not be tested, and please don't be interested in seeing people die. UV light on unprotected human tissue cases severe burns and cell death. Those who survive will have a highly increased risk of cancer.

UV is used to disinfect water because it is very damaging to DNA and RNA which bacteria and viruses have. If you take something that destroys DNA it's not very good for you.

 

If you take it at low enough dose it might be okay, but then it wouldn't have any effect on the coronavirus.

There are probably studies that verify your statement, but I haven't seen one. 

I don't disagree that the likelyhood is that it will be of no use.  I am still interested to see just how effective it would be.

I would also like to see where ANYONE said that the UV tests should be performed on Humans.

I don't think I SHOULD have to point out how ridiculous that assumption is in reality.

As for disinfectant - yes, the idea seems preposterous, until you look into what chemotherapy chemicals are:  "Alkylating agents are most active in the resting phase of the cell. These types of drugs are cell-cycle non-specific. There are several types of alkylating agents used in chemotherapy treatments: Mustard gas derivatives: Mechlorethamine, Cyclophosphamide, Chlorambucil, Melphalan, and Ifosfamide.

Types of Chemotherapy - What is Chemotherapy? - Chemocare

I know that if or when I have a jaded opinion of someone, it is much harder for me to be objective when listening to them.  I find it almost impossible to give them any benefit of the doubt, or use critical thinking to understand what they are really saying.

[billvon 2,995]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

1) The headline on the article you posted is more than a bit misleading.  Nice bias!! Trump didnt suggest injections - he said the concept was interesting.

 

No, it wasn't.  It was 100% factual and reported on an important health care concern.  It may make someone you admire look bad, but that's his fault for saying such a stupid thing.

Quote

2) It is pretty obvious that someone briefed him on the things that were being tested, and would be tested as possible treatments.  He found those possibilities interesting.

No, it was pretty clear that he heard some words during a briefing, misunderstood them, then made up a story that he thought would make him popular.  I guarantee no researcher suggested internal UV exposure or injection/ingestion of disinfectant.

Quote

3) If you really think that you should inject Lysol after those comments, you need more help, and better education.

People were sickened and killed due to taking chloroquine after his last irresponsible suggestion.  Most of the US needs better education.  Putting most of the US at risk is unacceptable.

Quote

4) I find it interesting, and would like to see the outcomes of UV light experiments.  I'm sure this comes from the scientific fact that UV is used to disinfect water, and surrounding air from contaminants.

?? Ever laid on the beach too long and gotten sun poisoning?  Had a skin cancer removed?  That's a mild form of UV exposure.  Germicidal lamps use an even shorter wavelength that's more damaging to human tissue.

[billvon 2,995]

3 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I would also like to see where ANYONE said that the UV tests should be performed on Humans.

 

"I think you said you're going to test that."