Pity for the USA

[Phil1111 1,149]

4 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Absolutely Phil.  It's all his fault.  If he had done things differently no one would have died.

Congratulations. I knew you would come around eventually.

You can compare the US to EU countries as far as cases and fatalities. Germany has done the best. US the worst.

'Meanwhile, South Korea recorded no new domestic COVID-19 cases for the first time in 72 days. The country dealt with the first major outbreak outside China, but brought the crisis under control with a massive testing campaign and intensive contact tracing."

Instead the dwindling trump hardcore choose to deflect criticism. To deny responsibility. Deny that inaction and the gutting of the CDC and government had anything to do with the dismal US response.

I'm glad you have come to see the light. Bravo.

[wmw999 2,534]

Because, after all, the only two choices are shit show and perfection. 

Wendy P. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

11 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Better yet, if Hillary was in office right now, No one would have even gotten sick!

Deny, deflect and make counter-accusations. Blame others who have no part of the equation. Clearly a good understanding of the trump-FOX playbook. From the abridged Joseph Stalin book "Subjugate the Masses" 1943

[turtlespeed 226]

3 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Congratulations. I knew you would come around eventually.

You can compare the US to EU countries as far as cases and fatalities. Germany has done the best. US the worst.

'Meanwhile, South Korea recorded no new domestic COVID-19 cases for the first time in 72 days. The country dealt with the first major outbreak outside China, but brought the crisis under control with a massive testing campaign and intensive contact tracing."

Instead the dwindling trump hardcore choose to deflect criticism. To deny responsibility. Deny that inaction and the gutting of the CDC and government had anything to do with the dismal US response.

I'm glad you have come to see the light. Bravo.

There is a big problem with that view.  I think the term is myopic,( but, it may not be 100% accurate)

You have to figure in, which would be incredibly difficult to do, the differences in societies and enforcement abilities due to standing laws, and individual states and governments.

For instance - Certain states haven't closed down areas, while others have ot.  I believe the most liberal state in the union, California, didn't fully shut down.  New York, the hardest hit, still didn't shut down NEARLY enough of its infrastructure to contain the outbreak.

That is just here - Societal differences between Germany and South Korea, for instance.  Another comparison would be Italy vs US.  It's just not that simple to compare.

 

[olofscience 489]

Just now, turtlespeed said:

There is a big problem with that view.  I think the term is myopic,( but, it may not be 100% accurate)

You have to figure in, which would be incredibly difficult to do, the differences in societies and enforcement abilities due to standing laws, and individual states and governments.

For instance - Certain states haven't closed down areas, while others have ot.  I believe the most liberal state in the union, California, didn't fully shut down.  New York, the hardest hit, still didn't shut down NEARLY enough of its infrastructure to contain the outbreak.

That is just here - Societal differences between Germany and South Korea, for instance.  Another comparison would be Italy vs US.  It's just not that simple to compare.

 

Yeah but if you want to be the best in the world, you can't make exceptions to who you compare to.

[turtlespeed 226]

4 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Deny, deflect and make counter-accusations. Blame others who have no part of the equation. Clearly a good understanding of the trump-FOX playbook. From the abridged Joseph Stalin book "Subjugate the Masses" 1943

<facepalm>

[turtlespeed 226]

Just now, olofscience said:

Yeah but if you want to be the best in the world, you can't make exceptions to who you compare to.

That's partly dishonest.  You have different societies and different social rules.  

Why was Italy so hard hit? Because of its social norms.

Why was S.Korea less hit?  It had stricter government control.

 

[olofscience 489]

Just now, turtlespeed said:

Why was Italy so hard hit? Because of its social norms.

Are you sure? In the UK we're on track to overtake Italy in deaths soon.

 

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

Why was S.Korea less hit?  It had stricter government control.

I think you have this backwards, they didn't lock down at all. They didn't have to. Same with Taiwan.

[turtlespeed 226]

9 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Are you sure? In the UK we're on track to overtake Italy in deaths soon.

 

I think you have this backwards, they didn't lock down at all. They didn't have to. Same with Taiwan.

OK - They didn't shut completely down.  The US didn't either.

They did cancel schools, they did put in place restrictions, and heavy fines.

I don't think the fines wouldn't have gone over very well here.

They did a lot of the same things we did here. (Or we did what they did) 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by turtlespeed

[sfzombie13 324]

used to be a member, but he always said it was for political reasons and he may be right.  no, i don't recall him recruiting for it.  that doesn't mean it didn't happen.  he did a lot of good for wv and deserves his name everywhere.  he created several programs for minorities here, maybe because he was trying to repent for earlier, who knows.  it is because of him we still have the 130th airlift wing here and lots of other good things.  we get shit now that he's gone.

[airdvr 210]

40 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Congratulations. I knew you would come around eventually.

You can compare the US to EU countries as far as cases and fatalities. Germany has done the best. US the worst.

'Meanwhile, South Korea recorded no new domestic COVID-19 cases for the first time in 72 days. The country dealt with the first major outbreak outside China, but brought the crisis under control with a massive testing campaign and intensive contact tracing."

Instead the dwindling trump hardcore choose to deflect criticism. To deny responsibility. Deny that inaction and the gutting of the CDC and government had anything to do with the dismal US response.

I'm glad you have come to see the light. Bravo.

I love it when people want to use the numbers to make a point.  Here's my point...we don't know enough about this because we don't have enough data.  We haven't tested enough people.  If you get hit by a bus and you area Covid-19 carrier you might be listed as a Covid-19 death.  One state just reduced the number of deaths by 200.

Responsibility lies with China.  When will you figure that out?

[olofscience 489]

3 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

OK - They didn't shut completely down.  The US didn't either.

They did cancel schools, they did put in place restrictions, and heavy fines.

I don't think the fines wouldn't have gone over very well here.

They did a lot of the same things we did here. (Or we did what they did)

No they did not cancel schools. Restrictions were placed only on one city, Daegu. Most of South Korea is operating close to normality, and that includes its main city Seoul.

The US lockdown is far more strict than what they have done in South Korea.

[turtlespeed 226]

4 minutes ago, olofscience said:

No they did not cancel schools. Restrictions were placed only on one city, Daegu. Most of South Korea is operating close to normality, and that includes its main city Seoul.

The US lockdown is far more strict than what they have done in South Korea.

If that's the case - I was misinformed, or I misunderstood.

Here is what I read:https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/26/821688981/how-south-korea-reigned-in-the-outbreak-without-shutting-everything-down

The article would lead me to believe that there were similar, but not as strict, restrictions.

Edited April 30, 2020 by turtlespeed

[wmw999 2,534]

2 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Responsibility lies with China.  When will you figure that out?

Then responsibility for global air pollution lies with England because they started the commercial burning of coal. Responsibility for the Cold War and nuclear escalation lies with the US because we got the first bomb. 
What good does blaming China do? 
Wendy P. 

[olofscience 489]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

If that's the case - I was misinformed, or I misunderstood.

Here is what I read:https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/26/821688981/how-south-korea-reigned-in-the-outbreak-without-shutting-everything-down

The article would lead me to believe that there were similar, but not as strict, restrictions.

Yes, I just read that article. If you read it again, there was nothing about universal restrictions or closures. It describes how they tracked down the few cases they had and responded really quickly, but for the 99% of the country that wasn't affected, life went on as normal.

[Coreece 190]

15 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

You can compare the US to EU countries as far as cases and fatalities.  Germany has done the best. US the worst.

By your logic Slovakia is putting Germany to shame!

Slovakia:  1391 cases -  22 deaths

Germany: 161,539 Cases and  6,467 deaths

[DJL 235]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

Better yet, if Hillary was in office right now, No one would have even gotten sick!

Even though this was said in sarcasm I can say with confidence that her response would be better.  Trumps approach is to see what happens and react to the fallout.  Hillary is a seasoned politician who trusts and acts on the information and advice she's given.  I know we can say that "no one" is far fetched but it's fair to say that we'd be ahead by a few weeks.

[Coreece 190]

15 minutes ago, airdvr said:

When will you figure that out?

I'm just wondering when he's going to figure out the difference between rates and raw numbers.

[okalb 104]

9 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

If that's the case - I was misinformed, or I misunderstood.

Here is what I read:https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/26/821688981/how-south-korea-reigned-in-the-outbreak-without-shutting-everything-down

The article would lead me to believe that there were similar, but not as strict, restrictions.

The difference in SK was they used a smart approach regarding contact tracing and testing. They took it very seriously from the start and contained it before it got out of control. They also gave incredible support to those that were affected to make sure they reduced the spread when infections were detected. To give you an idea, here is my own personal post from back in February:

"One of my cousins works for the province government that contains Seoul & the surrounding suburbs. She was exposed to the virus by a co-worker. She went immediately went into self-isolation, along with her entire building and their families...about 500 people in all. That same evening, she received boxes from the city's response team. Medical supplies, including instructions, biohazard bags, thermometer, gloves, masks, sanitizer, etc and another box of dry goods to minimize having to shop. She is called twice a day by a nurse to register her temperature and any symptoms. Boxes came every 5 days for nearly 3 weeks."

 

[jakee 1,562]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

Better yet, if Hillary was in office right now, No one would have even gotten sick!

You know what's really funny about that? You're trying to show how out crazy the left is by attributing to them a claim so wild and wacked out that it's beyond the bounds of sanity.

 

But obviously, no-one on the left ever made that claim. Someone on the right did, though. Trump did. He really, actually said that because of him only 15 people were ill, and that the number was declining to 0. 

 

So hey, well done on demonstrating how clueless and insane your hero is, and how rational and reasonable the left are in comparison.

[olofscience 489]

21 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I don't think the fines wouldn't have gone over very well here.

They did use surveillance in South Korea that might sit uncomfortably with americans.

But here in the UK, we have way more CCTV than South Korea. The only difference is that the South Korean government was actually competent at using it (alongside testing).

 

But if South Korea had DZs they would be jumping now. Would you accept a bit more government surveillance for more freedom to go out? No guarantee though, as the UK example shows. You also need a government who are not complete idiots.

[airdvr 210]

21 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Then responsibility for global air pollution lies with England because they started the commercial burning of coal. Responsibility for the Cold War and nuclear escalation lies with the US because we got the first bomb. 
What good does blaming China do? 
Wendy P. 

About the same good as blaming Trump.

[olofscience 489]

Just now, airdvr said:

About the same good as blaming Trump.

I don't blame Trump for the coronavirus. But I blame him for the incompetent way he dealt with it. See the difference?

[jakee 1,562]

3 minutes ago, airdvr said:

About the same good as blaming Trump.

No-one can go back in time and stop the virus coming out of China. What Trump is doing now still matters, because it's still happening. 

 

Pressurising China to reform their markets may help safeguard against a repeat of this in future sure, but it doesn't help now.

[Phil1111 1,149]

34 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I love it when people want to use the numbers to make a point.  ...

Responsibility lies with China.  When will you figure that out?

trump, "The United States has not done more COVID-19 testing than “every country combined,” as President Donald Trump claimed in remarks during a recent press briefing."   from Factcheck.org But why lets the facts ruin the FOX/trump talking points.

21 minutes ago, Coreece said:

By your logic Slovakia is putting Germany to shame!

Slovakia:  1391 cases -  22 deaths

Germany: 161,539 Cases and  6,467 deaths

Comparing the US with Slovakia. Got it.

16 minutes ago, Coreece said:

I'm just wondering when he's going to figure out the difference between rates and raw numbers.

Rates and raw numbers.See the first link attached.trump, Jared, FOX and their followers are the ones that need to ascertain the differences.