Pity for the USA

[airdvr 210]

6 minutes ago, olofscience said:

I don't blame Trump for the coronavirus. But I blame him for the incompetent way he dealt with it. See the difference?

Explain that to Phil will ya?

[turtlespeed 226]

23 minutes ago, olofscience said:

They did use surveillance in South Korea that might sit uncomfortably with americans.

But here in the UK, we have way more CCTV than South Korea. The only difference is that the South Korean government was actually competent at using it (alongside testing).

 

But if South Korea had DZs they would be jumping now. Would you accept a bit more government surveillance for more freedom to go out? No guarantee though, as the UK example shows. You also need a government who are not complete idiots.

No, I like as much privacy as my illusions tell me I have.

[turtlespeed 226]

5 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Explain that to Phil will ya?

There is no use - the hate with him and Jakee is to overwhelming for them.

[jakee 1,559]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

There is no use - the hate with him and Jakee is to overwhelming for them.

Says the guy who's still inventing reasons to hate on Hillary Clinton

[turtlespeed 226]

34 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Yes, I just read that article. If you read it again, there was nothing about universal restrictions or closures. It describes how they tracked down the few cases they had and responded really quickly, but for the 99% of the country that wasn't affected, life went on as normal.

That's great for them. 

I still say my argument over the inability to do that here in the US was a major impedance to flattening the curve.  There were two major impedances, though.  The leadership takes the rest of the blame that can be reasonably dolled out.

[Phil1111 1,149]

11 minutes ago, olofscience said:

I don't blame Trump for the coronavirus. But I blame him for the incompetent way he dealt with it. See the difference?

 

4 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Explain that to Phil will ya?

You need to go to law school. Then take your argument to the jury, to the US district court, to the US SC. Make the argument that the actions and inaction's of an individual are all separate from the individual.

"Yes your honors my client went to the mass shooting. Yes he was in charge of the Washington street gang. Yes he had knowledge of what was about to happen in advance. But he personally took no action. China is to blame because they manufactured the AK-47's used in the mass killings. China manufactured the ammunition. I rest my case"..." Oh when can I get to the Bench?"

[turtlespeed 226]

1 minute ago, jakee said:

Says the guy who's still inventing reasons to hate on Hillary Clinton

What are you even talking about?

[airdvr 210]

4 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

 

You need to go to law school. Then take your argument to the jury, to the US district court, to the US SC. Make the argument that the actions and inaction's of an individual are all separate from the individual.

"Yes your honors my client went to the mass shooting. Yes he was in charge of the Washington street gang. Yes he had knowledge of what was about to happen in advance. But he personally took no action. China is to blame because they manufactured the AK-47's used in the mass killings. China manufactured the ammunition. I rest my case"..." Oh when can I get to the Bench?"

Nice try.  Your post specifically blamed Trump for all of the deaths.  Let me help you remember...Since the commander and chief has already lost more Americans than the Vietnam war.

Edited April 30, 2020 by airdvr

[olofscience 489]

10 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Explain that to Phil will ya?

Sorry, as much as some conservatives like conspiracy theories, the left isn't centrally organised and I like to do my own thing

[Coreece 190]

25 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

51 minutes ago, Coreece said:

By your logic Slovakia is putting Germany to shame!

Slovakia:  1391 cases -  22 deaths

Germany: 161,539 Cases and  6,467 deaths

Comparing the US with Slovakia. Got it.

No, you compared the raw numbers of Germany to that of the U.S, so I posted an equally meaningless comparison with the hope that you'd go look for your thinking cap that has apparently blown off your head.

Personally I think Germany has been pretty impressive compared to other surrounding areas like the UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium and France that have covid deaths rates that are 2-3 times higher than that of the U.S

Edited April 30, 2020 by Coreece

[olofscience 489]

8 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

That's great for them. 

I still say my argument over the inability to do that here in the US was a major impedance to flattening the curve.  There were two major impedances, though.  The leadership takes the rest of the blame that can be reasonably dolled out.

What were the 2 impedances?

[turtlespeed 226]

Just now, olofscience said:

What were the 2 impedances?

The social aspect, and the leadership.

Hindsight is a muther!

 

[olofscience 489]

4 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

The social aspect, and the leadership.

Hindsight is a muther!

The Snowden leaks about the NSA spying on Americans showed that capability is not an issue, and the response showed that most people were okay with it to combat islamic terrorism.

As for leadership...where? Have you found any?

We can't just claim hindsight when there was the SARS outbreak in 2003, Swine flu in 2009, MERS in 2012, Ebola in 2014, Bill Gates warning about a pandemic in 2015.

If there's another new virus in 2 years' time, I really hope someone with a brain is in charge.

[jakee 1,559]

25 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

What are you even talking about?

It was less than 3 hours ago. Literally less than three hours ago that you took a Trump statement, twisted it into something "the left" might say, and used it to make a crack at Clinton. 

 

Honestly, a memory like that it's no wonder you keep getting all of your arguments wrong.

[billvon 3,065]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

That's partly dishonest.  You have different societies and different social rules.  

 

We've gone from "Make America Great Again" to "OK so we aren't great but there are good reasons for that!"  

That should be Trump's campaign slogan for this year.  "I have a good excuse!"

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

About the same good as blaming Trump.

Yet you spent a lot of time blaming Hillary Clinton for the death of 4 Americans and continue to do so. The boot licking never stops.

[JerryBaumchen 1,430]

36 minutes ago, billvon said:

We've gone from "Make America Great Again" to "OK so we aren't great but there are good reasons for that!"  

That should be Trump's campaign slogan for this year.  "I have a good excuse!"

Hi Bill,

I think I would go with:  'I take no responsibility.'

Works better for his base.

Jerry Baumchen

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

Nice try.  Your post specifically blamed Trump for all of the deaths.  Let me help you remember...Since the commander and chief has already lost more Americans than the Vietnam war.

Trump has called himself a war time president, with the virus as the enemy. If your President is the Commander in Chief and he has declared himself the war time president, then the statement you quote is completely factual.

[turtlespeed 226]

22 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Trump has called himself a war time president, with the virus as the enemy. If your President is the Commander in Chief and he has declared himself the war time president, then the statement you quote is completely factual.

Are you saying that he could have prevented the deaths? All?  Some?

How many - in rounded numbers?

Edited April 30, 2020 by turtlespeed

[turtlespeed 226]

1 hour ago, olofscience said:

The Snowden leaks about the NSA spying on Americans showed that capability is not an issue, and the response showed that most people were okay with it to combat islamic terrorism.

As for leadership...where? Have you found any?

We can't just claim hindsight when there was the SARS outbreak in 2003, Swine flu in 2009, MERS in 2012, Ebola in 2014, Bill Gates warning about a pandemic in 2015.

If there's another new virus in 2 years' time, I really hope someone with a brain is in charge.

The issue, I think is in the thinking behind it.

Blow up a building and you have a clear enemy.  Protections then make sense.

Tell people that they can't go to the beach and play golf for long enough and you will have disobedience.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by turtlespeed

[SkyDekker 1,465]

4 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Are you saying that he could have prevented the deaths? All?  Some?

How many - in rounded numbers?

I am saying that if a President declares himself a wartime president fighting an enemy, then saying:

Since the commander and chief has already lost more Americans than the Vietnam war.

is correct.

Is a military leader responsible for the deaths of those he or she is responsible for during conflict? Should that leader at a minimum show some respect and empathy for those lost in the battles?

[turtlespeed 226]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

I am saying that if a President declares himself a wartime president fighting an enemy, then saying:

Since the commander and chief has already lost more Americans than the Vietnam war.

is correct.

Is a military leader responsible for the deaths of those he or she is responsible for during conflict? Should that leader at a minimum show some respect and empathy for those lost in the battles?

Sure, absolutely, if there was any way to avoid the war.

In the case of the Vietnam war, there was always a way to avoid it. 

That was to not get involved in it.

So your argument doesn't work.

 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Sure, absolutely, if there was any way to avoid the war.

In the case of the Vietnam war, there was always a way to avoid it. 

That was to not get involved in it.

So your argument doesn't work.

 

Trump didn't have to call himself a wartime president, that could have been avoided. But he did. He is the one that made the comparison. It isn't my argument, it is his position.

[billvon 3,065]

6 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

I am saying that if a President declares himself a wartime president fighting an enemy, then saying:

Since the commander and chief has already lost more Americans than the Vietnam war.

is correct.

Is a military leader responsible for the deaths of those he or she is responsible for during conflict? Should that leader at a minimum show some respect and empathy for those lost in the battles?

Fun fact - 

During Trump's daily updates over the past few weeks, he spent four hours attacking the press and his political enemies, about 45 minutes tooting his own horn, 10 minutes pushing quack remedies - and less than 4 minutes expressing empathy for people affected by COVID-19.

[turtlespeed 226]

2 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Trump didn't have to call himself a wartime president, that could have been avoided. But he did. He is the one that made the comparison. It isn't my argument, it is his position.

<Facepalm>

You can be in charge of a country that is at war, and the war being completely unavoidable.

Your argument still doesn't work.