Trump and free speech

[kallend 2,027]

58 minutes ago, airdvr said:

If you recall social distancing, mask use etc...was only to flatten the curve.  We knew there would be many deaths.  I know that doesn't fit your TDS story so now it's all about how many are dead.

Oh puleeeze.

Trump denied, dithered and delayed, resulting in far MORE deaths than would have occurred had he shown a little competence and/or empathy, neither of which are in his playbook.

[JerryBaumchen 1,364]

59 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I'm thinking that people outdoors will not get it nearly as much leading to even more of a false sense of security. Followed by an explosion  of infection growth in the fall.

Hi Ken,

As I recall, most doctors that I saw on tv about a month ago said that Sept would be the next 'explosion  of infection growth.'

Jerry Baumchen

[ryoder 1,590]

Trump threatening Twitter is ludicrous. He is addicted to tweeting.

It's like the town drunk threatening to burn down the only saloon in town.

[Phil1111 1,149]

9 hours ago, ryoder said:

Trump threatening Twitter is ludicrous. He is addicted to tweeting.

It's like the town drunk threatening to burn down the only saloon in town.

Because of C-19 this is his version of the Nuremberg Rallies or the propaganda events that he had before. Instead of mindless cheering of his hordes and the supporting cast of TV crews. He has his 19% of American adults that follow him and in his mind he believes they approve of him. Instead of wanting to see how stupid he is. Of course thats 7% less than Obama. With trump 60% of those accounts are likely fake.

IMO those tweets are valuable because like his speeches that go off script. They are insight to his racism, ignorance and stupidity.

[gowlerk 2,198]

1 minute ago, Phil1111 said:

IMO those tweets are valuable because like his speeches that go off script. They are insight to his racism, ignorance and stupidity.

Those tweets are made for two reasons. First, it keeps everyone talking about him, and secondly it is an attempt to change the subject away from what is important. In other words, it is just another troll. It works here and it works in the larger word as well.

[Phil1111 1,149]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Those tweets are made for two reasons. First, it keeps everyone talking about him, and secondly it is an attempt to change the subject away from what is important. In other words, it is just another troll. It works here and it works in the larger word as well.

Agree but add vent, conduct personal attacks, continue vendettas, poll his supporters for their reactions, etc.

Press conferences aren't nearly as efficient for trump. Because reporters challenge his lies, mistakes and stupidity.

[billvon 2,996]

16 hours ago, airdvr said:

If you recall social distancing, mask use etc...was only to flatten the curve. 

Depends on how well it's done.  In New Zealand, it ended the pandemic.

Quote

We knew there would be many deaths. 

Of course, because we knew our response would be poor.  If we had reacted sooner, we would have saved tens of thousands of people.  If we had waited even longer, tens of thousands MORE would be dead.  Simple math.

 

 

 

[gowlerk 2,198]

26 minutes ago, billvon said:

If we had waited even longer, tens of thousands MORE would be dead.  Simple math.

Those tens of thousands are only delayed, not prevented. And they will be multiplied. It's going to be a long 12 months or so.

[wmw999 2,452]

11 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Those tens of thousands are only delayed, not prevented. And they will be multiplied. It's going to be a long 12 months or so.

Hong Kong is just about over with their pandemic. I believe they've had one case in the last two weeks. They were very stringent about social distancing, quarantine, and contact tracing, and much of the public has had the habit of wearing masks in public anyway since the 2003 SARS epidemic.

They're not an island, they are an international air hub that's adjacent to China, and they're a congested city. Kind of like three strikes.

If they can control it, it's possible. 

Wendy P.

[yoink 321]

4 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Because of C-19 this is his version of the Nuremberg Rallies or the propaganda events that he had before. 

When it comes to manipulation and weaseling Trump and his team are experts. 

Remember, he's UTTERLY selfish - he doesn't give a shit about any current events except through the lens of how it effects him in November.

Everything he's doing now is focused on that election. He's doing whatever he can to set the ground for de-legitimizing the result of that election if he loses. Fake mail-in ballots, 'manipulation' by the press and social media and any other excuse he can set up at this point to give him a platform for saying to his base 'it was a corrupt and unfair election' if he loses.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he refuses to abide by the result of the election result if it goes badly for him, at which point we have the biggest constitutional crisis in history and the scene being set for massive riots across the country.

Think of communes like Ron's - what would they do if Trump refused to step down after losing the election citing 'Democrats conspiring with China to rig the election' and was forcibly removed from office and Biden put in there? 

Edited May 30, 2020 by yoink

[JerryBaumchen 1,364]

1 hour ago, yoink said:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he refuses to abide by the result of the election result if it goes badly for him, at which point we have the biggest constitutional crisis in history and the scene being set for massive riots across the country.

Hi Will,

I have had other people tell me the same thing.

From what I have read, on 20 Jan 21 Trump, if he loses in Nov, will no longer be POTUS.  At that point in time, he will have no authority over anything or anyone.

During the Watergate crisis, Nixon actually considered surrounding the White House with US Marshals.  Fortunately, people close to him talked him out of that crazy idea.  With Trump, well he IS crazy.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I was watching Shields & Brooks on NPR last nite.  David Brooks said that Trump is the first POTUS since they have been measuring who has never had a positive rating by the American people during his entire time in office.

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by JerryBaumchen

[yoink 321]

Just now, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Will,

I have had other people tell me the same thing.

From what I have read, on 20 Jan 21 Trump, if he loses in Nov, will no longer be POTUS.  At that point in time, he will have no authority over anything or anyone.

During the Watergate crisis, Nixon actually considered surrounding the White House with US Marshals.  Fortunately, people close to him talked him out of that crazy idea.  With Trump, well he IS crazy.

Jerry Baumchen

That's what's scary about it. It's certainly not likely but you can actually imagine it happening with this president and his cronies. It's no secret he wants to be a dictator.

It would be challenged in the supreme court of course, but the country is in a shit  state of affairs when you have to HOPE that the supreme justices of the land put law first and politics and power second.

[JerryBaumchen 1,364]

1 minute ago, yoink said:

That's what's scary about it. It's certainly not likely but you can actually imagine it happening with this president and his cronies. It's no secret he wants to be a dictator.

It would be challenged in the supreme court of course, but the country is in a shit  state of affairs when you have to HOPE that the supreme justices of the land put law first and politics and power second.

Hi Will,

When everyone was thrashing their hands after Trump won the election, and how bad things would get, I posted that the worst crisis in this country was the Civil War and we got past that.  If Trump where to try something like you post, I then would consider that to be the greatest constitutional crisis this country has ever faced.  It would truly be a test of the will of the American people.

Remember, Trump's support is dropping daily; even from those who voted for him in 2016.  Yes, I do know that his hard-core supporters are with him & will be with him until the bitter end, but IMO the overall American people are not.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 2,198]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

If they can control it, it's possible. 

Of course it is possible. But not gonna happen with leadership that tweets about freeing the people, and teaches that wearing a mask is for sissies.

[billvon 2,996]

4 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Those tens of thousands are only delayed, not prevented. And they will be multiplied. It's going to be a long 12 months or so.

Some are prevented even today.  By not overloading the health care system, many people who would have died will live.

And as time goes on, and we learn what works and what doesn't (remdesivir, convalescent plasma, monoclonal antibodies) we also see more people surviving who would otherwise have died.  

Yes, in many ways it is a delaying action.  But the goal is not so that potential victims die later - it's to delay their infection long enough that they don't die at all.

[jakee 1,497]

3 hours ago, yoink said:

That's what's scary about it. It's certainly not likely but you can actually imagine it happening with this president and his cronies. It's no secret he wants to be a dictator.

It would be challenged in the supreme court of course, but the country is in a shit  state of affairs when you have to HOPE that the supreme justices of the land put law first and politics and power second.

I guess that's the one good thing about the otherwise baffling gap between election and inauguration. If Trump wants to challenge the result there's plenty of time to get a definitive ruling from the courts. If Trump then refused to leave when he was no longer legally President I'd imagine the Secret Service might have something to say about it.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

If Trump then refused to leave when he was no longer legally President I'd imagine the Secret Service might have something to say about it.

So would the military.

While he has intalled his toadies at some of the top leadership postions, and 'purged' a bunch (mostly through 'suggested' retirement), the majority of the leadership still takes their oath to protect the country from all enemies, foreign and domestic quite seriously.

[nigel99 480]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

I guess that's the one good thing about the otherwise baffling gap between election and inauguration. If Trump wants to challenge the result there's plenty of time to get a definitive ruling from the courts. If Trump then refused to leave when he was no longer legally President I'd imagine the Secret Service might have something to say about it.

I think America is fucked either way in November. I can’t see a good outcome, if he loses Trump will go wild along with the ‘patriots’ like Ron and who knows how that would play out. If he wins, Trump will take it as a green light for more of his disgusting behaviour and 4 more years of his crap.

[Phil1111 1,149]

I agree trump will try to frustrate the results of his November election loss. But IMO at that time the republicans will take back their party.

trump will have to leave kicking and screaming like the  petulant child he is. He will make excuses, promise revenge and retaliation. But like he did when he was turned down for loans from the last US bank, leave he will. Because the lights will be going out when the power is cut, its over.

[kallend 2,027]

6 hours ago, jakee said:

I guess that's the one good thing about the otherwise baffling gap between election and inauguration. If Trump wants to challenge the result there's plenty of time to get a definitive ruling from the courts. If Trump then refused to leave when he was no longer legally President I'd imagine the Secret Service might have something to say about it.

Caligula was assassinated by his own Praetorian Guard.

[yoink 321]

5 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

So would the military.

While he has intalled his toadies at some of the top leadership postions, and 'purged' a bunch (mostly through 'suggested' retirement), the majority of the leadership still takes their oath to protect the country from all enemies, foreign and domestic quite seriously.

What happens if the Supreme Court backs Trump’s bogus (in this scenario) claim? He’s stacked that deck too, remember? 

In that case the military brass probably follow the orders of the ‘legitimate’ president, Trump. What the rank and file do is anyone’s guess.

 

Strange days.

Edited May 31, 2020 by yoink

[kallend 2,027]

So Trump's Praetorian Guard tear-gassed a bunch of non-violent protesters in order that the pretend Christian could get a photo-op with a Bible outside St. Johns Episcopal Church, an act condemned by the rector, deacons, diocesan bishop, etc. of that same church.

[tonyhays 86]

[headoverheels 333]

[murps2000 86]