bch7773 0 #1 May 22, 2005 I had the rather unpleasent experience of jumping a canopy that didn't have its brakes stowed (someone else packed it) what does that do to the opening? For me, it felt really hard and shook me around alot, then partially opened with end cell closure and the slider was about 3/4ths of the way up. I looked up and saw both toggles in their keepers, but with no brake line stowed. I shook the rear risers and the problems fixed themselves. is this normal for unstowed brake line openings? Has anyone else managed to do this? MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #2 May 22, 2005 In my experience, it slows the inflation to the point where asymetrical infaltion can cause really wild openings.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #3 May 22, 2005 well if its just one it spins like a drunken bat as it opens... learned that the "fun" way...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #4 May 22, 2005 > Has anyone else managed to do this? I've done it twice on purpose, and had very ugly snively openings; the canopy tried to spin up in various directions as the slider was coming down. Also, the brake lines were really whipping over the slider and the tail of the canopy. In both cases I didn't wait to see what happened. I grabbed the toggles and held them halfway, which resulted in a normal opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footbagman 0 #5 May 23, 2005 After a jump I forgot to stow my brakes, The packer who packed it did not stow them to teach me a lesson. It worked.Life's a Beach, Not a Mountain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #6 May 23, 2005 Quote After a jump I forgot to stow my brakes, The packer who packed it did not stow them to teach me a lesson. It worked. So the packer preferred to jepodise your safety, as opposed to telling you to stow your brakes. I would NOT be using that packer againYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #7 May 23, 2005 Once Ive packed my canopy that way. I had a funny feeling on packing and it looked a bit defferent. I`ve noticed that after bagging, so I`ve started over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
achowe 0 #8 May 23, 2005 I wouldve taught the packer a lesson some other way. Stupid thing to do.------------------------------------------------- Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meltdown 0 #9 May 23, 2005 After a jump I forgot to stow my brakes, The packer who packed it did not stow them to teach me a lesson. ________________________________________________ Teach you a lesson? Isn't stowing the brakes part of the pack job? Since when do packers decide what part of the pack job they will or won't do? If that happened to me, I'd be PISSED! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #10 May 23, 2005 you are paying them to pack, not set brakes, not unstow sliders, not take twists outa the brake lines, not wipe mud off your ass....my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #11 May 23, 2005 You're not a packer, are you? If someone sets down a rig without the brakes stowed for a packer, the packer should a) stow them and/or b) tell the jumper to stow them. They should do the same with uncollapsed sliders. It shouldn't be, "Haha, you're dead, because you didn't uncollapse your slider and I didn't either". Stowing brakes and uncollapsing sliders are part of the packing process. Yes, it's common courtesy to do both before laying your canopy down for a packer, but people forget, maybe students don't know, etc. I'd take $2 back from that packjob if I were the guy in the post above, especially knowing it was INTENTIONALLY left undone. That's bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #12 May 23, 2005 If a reserve is brought to a rigger in the US an inspection and repack includes those things. I would expect a packjob to include them, unless previously discussed. I'd also expect most jumpers to do it for themselves, for all the reasons mentioned. Twists out of the brakelines and a new closing loop (before it breaks) I'd put back on the owner. But a packer should mention them. If the closing loop breaks, well, a packer will generate a whole lot more repeat business if he takes care of it and is a nice guy, than if he leaves the rig in a heap on the floor waiting for the surprise. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuvToFly 0 #13 May 23, 2005 Quote you are paying them to pack, not set brakes, not unstow sliders, not take twists outa the brake lines, not wipe mud off your ass.... That's a bunch of crap. Everyone in this sport should be looking out for one another. If a packer see that the lines are twisted or someone did not properly stow the brakes, they should either charge 'em to do it, or call the owner over to do it. It is never okay to just pack it without the brakes stowed because it's "not my job." "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #14 May 23, 2005 I knew I'd get shit for that one. I NEVER said it was ok to do that, and I don't condone it. BUT, being on that end where you are busting your ass to do as many as possible, you ARE being paid to pack. Yes, you could say it's part of the job, but that is something the jumper should be taking care of. That's just my view of it. As a rigger doing a reserve....totally different story.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #15 May 23, 2005 nope. it's YOUR parachute you are jumping and YOUR ass you are saving... if you cant take the time to actually pack your chute and then dont take the time to do the very basics (set your brakes) dont expect them to do it for you.. the slider is a different animal as it is right in the packers face and is easily included as part of the process, but still if you are to lazy to unstow it before you take your rig off...... brakes are not... if you watch a professional packer who is packing for multiple jumper at a turbine DZ you'll see that having to stop and set the brakes for a jumper who was to lazy, or to stupid to do it themselves SIGNIFICANTLY slows down the process.. on a slow day i can see it, maybe as a matter of courtesy, ONCE...but i've also seen a jumper get REALLY pissed at the packer when he came back 30 min later to discover his chute was lying off to the side unpacked and he was on a 10 min call... apparently he expected the packer to drop everything else and hunt him down to tell him he didnt stow his brakes.... i use packers often, i always stow my brakes after landing (its less messy to carry and prevents the whole twisted lines) unstow my slider before i take the rig off, and often cock the pilot chute if the packer is really busy... these 3 'minor' details to help insure MY life is that much safer and significantly ease the work load on the packer... if you do it as part of your normal ritual it is never a problem, but expecting a packer to break THEIR normal ritual when all you are paying for is really putting the chute in the bag and the container is bullshit... if you habitually forget to stow/unstow your brakes & slider you'll likely be looking for a new packer... and should probably be looking for a new sport as well...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meltdown 0 #16 May 23, 2005 not wipe mud off your ass.... ___________________________ Who the fuck said anything about wiping mud off of my ass? If some uppity packer won't stow the brakes, he sure as shit ought to tell the person that's PAYING for the pack job. This shit is dangerous enough without some ASSHOLE deciding to endanger someone elses life because he feels like teaching someone a lesson. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuvToFly 0 #17 May 23, 2005 Quote nope. it's YOUR parachute you are jumping and YOUR ass you are saving... if you cant take the time to actually pack your chute and then dont take the time to do the very basics (set your brakes) dont expect them to do it for you.. the slider is a different animal as it is right in the packers face and is easily included as part of the process, but still if you are to lazy to unstow it before you take your rig off...... brakes are not... if you watch a professional packer who is packing for multiple jumper at a turbine DZ you'll see that having to stop and set the brakes for a jumper who was to lazy, or to stupid to do it themselves SIGNIFICANTLY slows down the process.. on a slow day i can see it, maybe as a matter of courtesy, ONCE...but i've also seen a jumper get REALLY pissed at the packer when he came back 30 min later to discover his chute was lying off to the side unpacked and he was on a 10 min call... apparently he expected the packer to drop everything else and hunt him down to tell him he didnt stow his brakes.... i use packers often, i always stow my brakes after landing (its less messy to carry and prevents the whole twisted lines) unstow my slider before i take the rig off, and often cock the pilot chute if the packer is really busy... these 3 'minor' details to help insure MY life is that much safer and significantly ease the work load on the packer... if you do it as part of your normal ritual it is never a problem, but expecting a packer to break THEIR normal ritual when all you are paying for is really putting the chute in the bag and the container is bullshit... if you habitually forget to stow/unstow your brakes & slider you'll likely be looking for a new packer... and should probably be looking for a new sport as well... I don't use a packer - but used to. The very best always told you if they thought something did not look right or was undone. If they can't take that minimal level of responsibility in their role, they should get out of the packing business - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 May 23, 2005 Quote you are paying them to pack, not set brakes, not unstow sliders, not take twists outa the brake lines, not wipe mud off your ass.... Having used packers from many DZs so far, I've seen many different preferences. Some don't care what I do with the brakes, because they're going to reset them anyway. Others do want me to set the brakes and cock the PC as well. If I'm off, they only need to say so and I'll correct. If one wants to teach me a lesson, well, I'll just pack myself the rest of the day then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #19 May 23, 2005 Good jumpers stow their brakes. Good packers check the brakes to make sure the jumpers stowed them. A packer who's arrogant enough to intentionally leave brakes unstowed to "teach a lesson", should be fired on the spot and run off the dropzone. This is precicely why packers operate under the supervision of riggers. What rigger would risk his certificate for this? If the rigger condones it, he too should be run from the dropzone. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #20 May 23, 2005 Quote not wipe mud off your ass.... ___________________________ Who the fuck said anything about wiping mud off of my ass? If some uppity packer won't stow the brakes, he sure as shit ought to tell the person that's PAYING for the pack job. This shit is dangerous enough without some ASSHOLE deciding to endanger someone elses life because he feels like teaching someone a lesson. Easy killer. It's easy to see how you and your 200+ jumps would know about this. The packer is not your baby sitter. Andyman pretty much put it right.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #21 May 23, 2005 They said basically the same thing with different temperaments. I'm glad you attribute temper to a lack of experience, though. I'd like to introduce you to a few dot commers with 2,000+ jumps and attitude to spare. And I think that meltdown was provoked by your "wipe your ass" comment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #22 May 23, 2005 >Everyone in this sport should be looking out for one another. That's sort of old-style thinking. I've seen many new jumpers become angry when older jumpers give them advice on canopy selection, what they're doing in RW etc. More than once, I've seen a packer put aside a rig that has a badly worn closing loop (or some other problem) only to get yelled at by the jumper who then can't make their 10 minute call. "Are you gonna pay my slot that I'm gonna miss now?" I remember one angry customer ask a packer. Enough instances like that, and I could see the packer giving the customer what they want - a fast pack job, period. It would be nice if people _did_ look out for each other. That goes both ways. It means helping people who need help, and it also means accepting help/advice when it's offered - and not reaming someone out for trying to help. Even if the jumper in question has 200 jumps and knows everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meltdown 0 #23 May 23, 2005 It's easy to see how you and your 200+ jumps would know about this. ________________________________________________ Whatever dude. You are the one who started it. Your problem is, you keep reading things into posts that simply don't exist. Perhaps you should read the text, and respond to that. Even someone with 5 jumps can do that. Can you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saturn27 0 #24 May 23, 2005 I rarely get a packer, but recently, I have been doing so if our 4 way team is on a tight scheudule. I just found out that packers would like you to stow your brakes, unstow the slider and cock the pilot chute. It's not written down anywhere, and I never would have known unless that packer told me to do so. Now that I know what is expected, I will do it - Not a big deal, just didn't know. Cheers, Jen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #25 May 23, 2005 Quote Whatever dude. You are the one who started it. hmmmmm, i guess you got me there.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
