How about some good news for a change!!

[mistercwood 287]

17 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I am against subsidies of all kinds, pass the true cost onto the end consumer and let the free market decide. 

But this is exactly my point. You don't have a free market. You have an incumbent industry who has been - and continues to be - propped up, and a newcomer being denied the same benefits then pointed at as unable to compete on its merits.

[billvon 2,991]

8 hours ago, brenthutch said:

No it’s more like; when an EV can do what my SUV can do at the same price point they will become a viable alternative.  (BTW not a single EV in the top 25, not one)

But your SUV ALREADY can't do what the Ford Transit can do at the same price point.  A Ford Transit costs $24,000.  What did yours cost? 

[kallend 2,027]

8 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I am against subsidies of all kinds, pass the true cost onto the end consumer and let the free market decide.  

True cost includes the cost of remediating damage to the environment and to people's health.

[DJL 235]

11 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I am against subsidies of all kinds, pass the true cost onto the end consumer and let the free market decide.

That's the quickest way to give up ownership of technology and development while other countries get ahead of us.  Don't ignore the vertical aspect of industries, if you want US companies to excel then you need US money putting them there and not everyone has a Scrooge McDuck bank of money to throw at R&D.

[brenthutch 444]

8 hours ago, billvon said:

But your SUV ALREADY can't do what the Ford Transit can do at the same price point.  A Ford Transit costs $24,000.  What did yours cost? 

Zero to sixty in six seconds?

[brenthutch 444]

1 hour ago, DJL said:

1 hour ago, DJL said:

That's the quickest way to give up ownership of technology and development while other countries get ahead of us.  Don't ignore the vertical aspect of industries, if you want US companies to excel then you need US money putting them there and not everyone has a Scrooge McDuck bank of money to throw at R&D.

SpaceX seems to be getting by on private equity.  

Edited July 22, 2020 by brenthutch

[DJL 235]

11 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

SpaceX seems to be getting by on private equity.  

You think that's the norm?  Because if it were then why isn't everyone doing it?  Also, do you know that NASA has given SpaceX $3.1 billion dollars?

Edited July 22, 2020 by DJL

[brenthutch 444]

I think you mean SpaceX has EARNED $3.1 billion from NASA.

Apple, Google, Amazon?  Looks like everyone IS doing it.

[billvon 2,991]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Zero to sixty in six seconds?

Ah!  In that case your car can't do anything near what EV's can. The Model X can do 0-60 in 2.6 seconds.  When your SUV can do what a Tesla can do at the same price point, it will become a viable option for people.

[turtlespeed 220]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Zero to sixty in six seconds?

You are comparing another orange to your apple - 

[brenthutch 444]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

Ah!  In that case your car can't do anything near what EV's can. The Model X can do 0-60 in 2.6 seconds.  When your SUV can do what a Tesla can do at the same price point, it will become a viable option for people.

Not enough range, 305(less in winter) vs 422

Not enough room 120 cu.ft. vs 143.6 cu.ft.

Insufficient towing capacity 4960lbs vs 7500lbs

I will grant you teenage boys will be impressed with the doors on the model x

[turtlespeed 220]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Not enough range, 305(less in winter) vs 422

Not enough room 120 cu.ft. vs 143.6 cu.ft.

Insufficient towing capacity 4960lbs vs 7500lbs

I will grant you teenage boys will be impressed with the doors on the model x

Let us know when they can reach 60 in 2.6.

 

[brenthutch 444]

56 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Let us know when they can reach 60 in 2.6.

 

I don’t really need that, just need to be faster than 90% of the other vehicles on the road.  I DO need the space, range and towing capacity.

[turtlespeed 220]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I don’t really need that, just need to be faster than 90% of the other vehicles on the road.  I DO need the space, range and towing capacity.

Need is so subjective.

I need a lot of things too.

I need a Tour Bus.

 

[billvon 2,991]

7 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Not enough range, 305(less in winter) vs 422

Not enough room 120 cu.ft. vs 143.6 cu.ft.

Insufficient towing capacity 4960lbs vs 7500lbs

Wow, it can do all that for $24,000?

[brenthutch 444]

10 hours ago, billvon said:

Wow, it can do all that for $24,000?

Less than that actually $23,849

https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/gl-class/2015/vin/4JGDF2EE3FA575434/?national=true&radius=6000

Edited July 23, 2020 by brenthutch

[billvon 2,991]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Less than that actually $23,849

Ah, I see.  Once you can get a used one for $7,999, then it will be a serious option.  Until then it's a toy for people who have more money than sense, and want to prove they are rich.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=550709171&zip=92101&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D92101%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceASC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26modelCodeList%3DTRANSCONN%26makeCodeList%3DFORD%26searchRadius%3D500%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=TRANSCONN&makeCodeList=FORD&searchRadius=500&makeCode1=FORD&modelCode1=TRANSCONN&clickType=listing

[brenthutch 444]

12 minutes ago, billvon said:

Ah, I see.  Once you can get a used one for $7,999, then it will be a serious option.  Until then it's a toy for people who have more money than sense, and want to prove they are rich.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=550709171&zip=92101&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D92101%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceASC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26modelCodeList%3DTRANSCONN%26makeCodeList%3DFORD%26searchRadius%3D500%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=TRANSCONN&makeCodeList=FORD&searchRadius=500&makeCode1=FORD&modelCode1=TRANSCONN&clickType=listing

Can’t tow, can’t accelerate, no seat massage, I’ll stick with the Merc.

[normiss 798]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Can’t tow, can’t accelerate, no seat massage, I’ll stick with the Merc.

Lord I'm crazy 'bout a Mercury.

[brenthutch 444]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2020/07/25/the-tesla-paradox-highest-emotional-attachment-lowest-quality-says-jd-power/#f4a6e7d7594c

 

The manufacturing quality of Tesla vehicles is low according to the J.D. Power annual Initial Quality Study released June 24. According to the Wall Street Journal, the survey found that “Tesla vehicles, in their first time appearing in the survey, were found to have 250 problems per 100 vehicles compared with an industry average this year of 166 problems.” That is the worst performance in the industry. As David Sargent, VP, Global Automotive at J.D. Power, told me in a July 24 interview, “Tesla’s score of 250 was the highest of any manufacturer in the study. Why the poor quality? It’s not the fact that they are making an electric vehicle. It’s the basics. On the outside of the vehicle [there are problems with] door closures, panel fit, wind noise, and paint quality. On the inside it’s the interior finish that’s not completely attached, rattles and squeaking that are more noticeable in an electric vehicle because it’s quiet.”

Why would anyone, in their right mind, choose a Tesla over any other premium car? According to J.D Power, they are a POS.  I guess It makes sense if the need to race at stoplights (like a teenage boy) and virtue signal overrides any rational impulse.

Edited July 26, 2020 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,720]

21 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2020/07/25/the-tesla-paradox-highest-emotional-attachment-lowest-quality-says-jd-power/#f4a6e7d7594c

 

The manufacturing quality of Tesla vehicles is low according to the J.D. Power annual Initial Quality Study released June 24. According to the Wall Street Journal, the survey found that “Tesla vehicles, in their first time appearing in the survey, were found to have 250 problems per 100 vehicles compared with an industry average this year of 166 problems.” That is the worst performance in the industry. As David Sargent, VP, Global Automotive at J.D. Power, told me in a July 24 interview, “Tesla’s score of 250 was the highesGoddamn t of any manufacturer in the study. Why the poor quality? It’s not the fact that they are making an electric vehicle. It’s the basics. On the outside of the vehicle [there are problems with] door closures, panel fit, wind noise, and paint quality. On the inside it’s the interior finish that’s not completely attached, rattles and squeaking that are more noticeable in an electric vehicle because it’s quiet.”

Why would anyone, in their right mind, choose a Tesla over any other premium car.  According to J.D Power, they are a POS.  I guess It makes sense if the need to race at stoplights (like a teenage boy) and virtue signal overrides any rational impulse.

Goddamn son, now you listen to me. My horse will eat grass along the road with no complaint and pull the wagon dawn till dark. You see any free gas cans along the road? Nope. But you will see your Pa dragging them horseless carriages back to town, and that's a fact. Mark my words, boy. As grand dad Hutchings always said.......

[Phil1111 1,149]

19 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

...

Why would anyone, in their right mind, choose a Tesla over any other premium car.  According to J.D Power, they are a POS.  I guess It makes sense if the need to race at stoplights (like a teenage boy) and virtue signal overrides any rational impulse.

 

Why Tesla has the most loyal customers.   Sept. 6, 2014

Forbes, that would be the same source you quoted.1. A Good Experience Creates Loyal Customers Tesla has the most loyal customers of any car company with an overall satisfaction rating of 90%. A staggering 80% of customers buy or lease another Tesla for their next car. Some customers were even willing to wait years to get their Model 3s.Feb. 2019

Mercedes Benz customer loyalty 2019 44% Gee that would be 1/2 the loyalty of Tesla.

Brent, quit while you're behind! You dig the hole deeper and deeper with every example. You haven't graduated from trump University have you?

[brenthutch 444]

19 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Why Tesla has the most loyal customers.   Sept. 6, 2014

Forbes, that would be the same source you quoted.1. A Good Experience Creates Loyal Customers Tesla has the most loyal customers of any car company with an overall satisfaction rating of 90%. A staggering 80% of customers buy or lease another Tesla for their next car. Some customers were even willing to wait years to get their Model 3s.Feb. 2019

Mercedes Benz customer loyalty 2019 44% Gee that would be 1/2 the loyalty of Tesla.

Brent, quit while you're behind! You dig the hole deeper and deeper with every example. You haven't graduated from trump University have you?

Did you not read the article?  The customer loyalty is inversely proportional to the level of quality.  It is just a bunch of guys desperately trying to justify their bad decision.

what part of “lowest quality” did you not understand?

[Phil1111 1,149]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Did you not read the article?  The customer loyalty is inversely proportional to the level of quality.  It is just a bunch of guys desperately trying to justify their bad decision.

what part of “lowest quality” did you not understand?

Boy have those Germans ever brainwashed you. As quality and product experience goes up, generally loyalty goes up. Quality, service, product satisfaction is directly related to loyalty. An inverse relationship would mean that poor quality i.e. increasing defects, poor customer service and poor brand experience would have increased loyalty. Your story is flawed as is your understanding of an inverse relationship.

Sigh, trump is German so I guess that makes sense. The stupider trump is the more loyal his supporters become.Thats an inverse relationship.

[brenthutch 444]

28 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Boy have those Germans ever brainwashed you. As quality and product experience goes up, generally loyalty goes up. Quality, service, product satisfaction is directly related to loyalty. An inverse relationship would mean that poor quality i.e. increasing defects, poor customer service and poor brand experience would have increased loyalty. Your story is flawed as is your understanding of an inverse relationship.

Sigh, trump is German so I guess that makes sense. The stupider trump is the more loyal his supporters become.Thats an inverse relationship.

That’s a reach but I will give you an A for imagination (or would that that be an I?) BTW the Benz is the wife’s, I drive an Accord coupe V6 w a manual.

Edited July 26, 2020 by brenthutch