Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise

[mirage62 0]

Quote

The signal to noise ratio is going way down in this thread. I'm very tempted to move it to Bonfire or lock it altogether. And I don't think anyone wants that.

ROTFLOL you have GOT to be kidding me??? No shit, the mods here sit and watch people take cheap shots at each other - mods included - and this women gets zinged with a picture or two given her unabashed attack on posters here....and we getting a warning shot???

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[mirage62 0]

Quote

lighten up Francis

+100

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[PiLFy 3]

Abide

HAhahahaha !! Thanks, Man. I needed a laugh. Nicely done.

[mjosparky 4]

Squeak

from an outsiders POV you all look a bit like are a bunch of school yard bullies

You seem to revel in entertaining yourselves by mocking and belittling others.



Your mommas would be proud.

Fixed it for you.

Keyboard courage.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Squeak 17]

Iago

***from an outsiders POV you all look a bit like a bunch of school yard bullies

You seem to revel in entertaining yourselves by mocking and belittling others.



Your mommas would be proud.

The outside observers aren't in our world.Yes we are

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[normiss 840]

Not if you were to come to the USA in search of a DZ that was shut down due to public outcry.

The noise!
The leaded fuel!
The crashes!
The off airport skydiver landings!
They even have a forum where they mock whiners!

[Squeak 17]

Iago

*********from an outsiders POV you all look a bit like a bunch of school yard bullies

You seem to revel in entertaining yourselves by mocking and belittling others.



Your mommas would be proud.

The outside observers aren't in our world.Yes we are

Uh huh. That's like saying a casual traveler that stops off at a Hell's Angels biker rally is in their world.As far as this thread is concerned Im an outsider. I have no vested interest in either Longmont or the noise abatement issues related to it.

So as an outsider reading through these posts let me tell you, you DO look like a bunch of whiny petty bullying school kids.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[normiss 840]

Outside of the Mile High DZ, none of us really do at this point in time.
Until one of these whining bitches successfully shutters a DZ that any of us use regularly.
Right?

All well and good until it affects ME?
I disagree.

If you won't defend another airport/DZ, why should we give a shit when yours gets clipped?

At the very least, we should apply equal amounts of noise in an effort to cancel it out.

[mattjw916 2]

then go away and take your "appeals to emotion" invoking imagery of children with you (which isn't remotely relevant or accurate I might add)

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[stratostar 5]

Yes! Because this issue has move now outside of Longmont and it has now cost another dz their landing area, for now. In the industry over all the attitude of "don't affect me" is there in large volumes, pretty sad really.

People need an outlet, they are joking to one another, I assume as a way to lighten the mood, sucks to watch our friends and fellow jumpers get harassed into court, forced to spend god knows how much to defend OUR rights to access the skies.

Airport access issues come in many different forms of attack. These issues can do effect all of us, here in the USA. If you can't handle some jokes getting cracked, then you might not find the social life the sport has to offer up to your liking.

If you can read past the jokes and noise, hopefully most can take away that there is a problem and they leave understanding that is NOT just a local issue!!! Everyone needs to do their part and be vocal on a national level.... or just keep sending in some chump change and hope a handful of people can keep you in the air in this country.

Two on the east coast, and two in the CO front range, under attack in the same manner... Two of those legal businesses have been FORCED into lease denials by vocal minorities!

Think about it, support the sport or shut up and don't bitch when dz are shut down or get hassled by Cities, counties or states, on top of the feds.

Some of you really have no idea how lucky & good y'all got it.

P.S. We may not agree with the mods on everything, but it is the deal we agree too. Please do as they ask so the thread is not locked or removed. There is no reason to attack them. For one we were asked nicely to chill out once already.... so chill out.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[jonstark 8]

stratostar

http://www.timescall.com/news_region-news/ci_24565869/denial-independent-skydive-company-landing-zone-near-boulder

This is denial of a request for special permission to use land in a particular way. It can be brought back up to their zoning board of appeals as I suspect we will hear shortly.

Landing "out" is an known aspect of skydiving. The FAA has the rule of law saying that skydiving is an appropriate use of the federal airways system and that landing out is to be expected and is legal if accidental. No municipality can prohibit an activity that is allowed by Federal law. That's like saying no airplanes may fly over our town because one may crash. They may, however, regulate it.

The FAA knows full well that residential use of land adjacent to airports can become a problem and has provided guidance in the form of recommendations to municipalities not to allow residential development of land that way.

This DZO is being harassed and should go for punitive damages.

[ryoder 1,590]

A summary of the geographics of the remote landing area which "Independent Skydive" has been using while operating out of Boulder airport:

Here is the zoning application http://www.bouldercounty.org/property/build/docketsdocs/su130006ref.pdf

Attached is the Google Maps aerial view.
The Gibbs house is in the lower left corner.
The remote landing area is the red triangle on the right.
Here is the Google Maps link to this location: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=7468+Mt+Sherman+Rd+Longmont,+CO+80503&hl=en&ll=40.082669,-105.169716&spn=0.033525,0.036306&sll=38.997934,-105.550567&sspn=8.713586,9.294434&hnear=7468+Mt+Sherman+Rd,+Longmont,+Colorado+80503&t=h&z=15
It is about 3200' from the Gibbs house to the SW corner of the landing area.

Note there are a half dozen properties on the West edge of the landing area,
otherwise an off-landing will be in open space.
Boulder Airport is 4 miles SW of the Gibbs house.
Vance Brand Airport is 6 miles North of the Gibbs house.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Squeak 17]

normiss

Outside of the Mile High DZ, none of us really do at this point in time.
Until one of these whining bitches successfully shutters a DZ that any of us use regularly.
Right?

All well and good until it affects ME?
I disagree.

If you won't defend another airport/DZ, why should we give a shit when yours gets clipped?

At the very least, we should apply equal amounts of noise in an effort to cancel it out.

You're deliberately misinterpreting my post Mark.
I have not remotely suggested that the DZ efforts not be supported.
My comments are in regard to the manner in which people seem to want to conduct themselves in relation the the woman in question.
You're all supposedly mature adults.
Reading many of the posts in this thread it would be understandable if that wasn't immediately apparent.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[hcsvader 1]

Squeak

******from an outsiders POV you all look a bit like a bunch of school yard bullies

You seem to revel in entertaining yourselves by mocking and belittling others.



Your mommas would be proud.

The outside observers aren't in our world.Yes we are

The same problems exists in Australia. I know of a dz that has closed and another that has pretty heavy restrictions.

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[ryoder 1,590]

Squeak

You're all supposedly mature adults.

No mature adults here; Just skydivers.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[normiss 840]

I didn't deliberately do anything.

I won't apologize for not meeting your standard of behavior.

I can't believe I just said that to an Aussie. Do your fellow countrymen know you're so prim and proper?
Jebus.
I sure hope not.
We might be stuck with you if they do.


Lighten up Francis, there are people intent on attacking our sport and shutting it down.
I am not about to apologize for wanting to defend and protect our access to the skies.
No skydiving makes Mark a dull boy.

[Squeak 17]

normiss

I didn't deliberately do anything.

I won't apologize for not meeting your standard of behavior.

I can't believe I just said that to an Aussie. Do your fellow countrymen know you're so prim and proper?
Jebus.
I sure hope not.
We might be stuck with you if they do.


Lighten up Francis, there are people intent on attacking our sport and shutting it down.
I am not about to apologize for wanting to defend and protect our access to the skies.
No skydiving makes Mark a dull boy.

Yeah 'cause stuff like this is all about defending your rights as a skydiver

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=140877;

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[normiss 840]

Really?
That upsets you????

I could not possible care less about that.
No opinion either way.
I didn't create it.

I do recall an impressive series of cartoons on this very site mocking a skydiver some years back. I also recall we all loved that series of cartoons.
That was ok, why is this different?

You do realize we also mock politicians, public figures, foreigners, pretty much anything for a laugh.
I think that's all part of the first amendment.
Welkome to Amerika comrade.

[Squeak 17]

normiss

Really?
That upsets you????

I could not possible care less about that.
No opinion either way.
I didn't create it.

I do recall an impressive series of cartoons on this very site mocking a skydiver some years back. I also recall we all loved that series of cartoons.
That was ok, why is this different?
.

It doesn't "upset" me, I just think it's the wrong way to go about trying to get an important point (or argument) across.
Belittling your opposition doesn't really support your argument. (Im not referring you, you just keep replying to my posts )

As to the cartoon you referenced if you are meaning the Duck toons. Those cartoon were never belittled nor was the author of them. She was making a visual diary of her jumps, which she shared with others. I dont recall anyone ever trying to ridicule her over them or her jumping experience. (if you are referring to some other cartoon, I dont recall it)

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[normiss 840]

I do agree with you on the Wicked Witch of the West image.

No, not the Duck. Years back.....

Full comic book effect, framed pics, ! and everything.
It was a most impressive piece of work.
More so given the creator.

[cpoxon 0]

Squeak

It doesn't "upset" me, I just think it's the wrong way to go about trying to get an important point (or argument) across.
Belittling your opposition doesn't really support your argument.

Quite the opposite in fact. "Play the ball, not the man". We may be skydivers with our idiosyncrasies, but the real world would view these very dimly.

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[grimmie 186]

The reality of this thread is that it only serves the enjoyment of fellow skydivers and the antagonizing of the anti-DZ folks.

The best thing is for the lawyers and the FAA, USPA, AOPA, city, county and DZO's to hash it out quietly, without all of this background noise.

Debating such issues as this in a public forum and the newspaper comments sections serves no purpose towards the eventual outcome.

It's sort of like convincing the folks over in "Speaker's Corner" to vote for their opposite political party.

[normiss 840]

Sure.
Ignore them and they go away?
I disagree.

I don't think it's ok for asshole idiots to attack a viable and legal industry while we should sit on the sidelines and simply wave as the parade marches by.

Nor will I.

Fuck them. THEY are the idiots that happily purchased property near established airports and related businesses.
Only to insanely complain about their purchases.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

normiss

..........Nor will I.

Fuck them. THEY are the idiots that happily purchased property near established airports and related businesses.
Only to insanely complain about their purchases.

I didn't become vocal on this issue until I found my name on Gibby's hit list. I will admit, I don't know how I got there, but I've had a lot of fun with it. And, I'd agree that maybe we've (myself included) gone a little too far.

I agree with Nomiss (above) that sitting back quietly allowing these people to have their way is not the answer here. So, moving forward, what would be a good strategy for the skydiving community to adopt to attack this issue? Maybe some of the legal types could chime in here?

If you follow this groups adgenda, it's clear they are targeting our sport. This is not a local issue.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[jonstark 8]

The problem is that she lives 4 and 6 miles from the airports!!!!! Her complaints are about aircraft well out of the airport flight pattern and climbing in a designated area over sparsely populated land. Damn difficult for me to take her noise complaints seriously and certainly nothing the FAA could or would consider.

The landing area access issue is about a zoning board deciding that the use of a rural parcel of land for parachute landing is not an "appropriate" land use in their view. I don't imagine there is any municipal statute, bylaw or regulation prohibiting skydiving. They just don't want parachutists to land there because of the possibility that they might land out from time to time. The zoning board is taking the side of their loudest and largest constituency by denying a special permit.

We/they have a classic case of NIMBYs moving into a community that has a long standing activity only to complain that they don't want it. "Waaah! We didn't know it was going to be like this when we moved here. Waaah... Make them go away!."

jon