Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise

[normiss 798]

Jon,
Doesn't that complaining attitude sometimes extend to the local airport authority or city council?
They THINK they have the power and authority to manage and control every aspect of THEIR airport, when in fact that's not true at all.
The Longmont Whiners Association has taken in monies for the lawsuit, only to use it to contribute to a local politician who is supporting their views on the noise complaints. I think he committed to them to make changes.
I suspect this is somehow illegal for a non-profit to contribute to a politician this way as well.

[jonstark 8]

That whining attitude certainly does effect the airport authority. Especially if there isn't a very strong advocacy for general aviation there. Very often these "authorities" are more influenced by local government and business to the detriment of general aviation. They get swayed into believing that the airport will be far more valuable if they fence it in, make it hermetically secure and kick out the little guys so that the airlines will come. But the airlines never do come. Light aircraft operators and businesses lose and the noise NIMBYs have their way by default.

Longmont is a political fight. It's no longer about "airport" noise. It's about an unreasonable expectation of total quiet in a suburban setting and a trumped up fear that a skydiver might land in someone's back yard. The whiners are attempting to gain the upper hand by taking it out of our normal airport access/noise pervue into their local political arena.

[ryoder 1,590]

jonstark

The problem is that she lives 4 and 6 miles from the airports!!!!!

Don't forget the cargo turbine she was whining about, operating out of Centennial Airport 30 miles away.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,590]

jonstark

That whining attitude certainly does effect the airport authority. Especially if there isn't a very strong advocacy for general aviation there. Very often these "authorities" are more influenced by local government and business to the detriment of general aviation.

Agreed; It is the old the-squeaky-wheel-gets-the-grease phenomenon.
Not unlike the Super Bowl XXXVIII halftime show controversy;
144,400,000 viewers got a glimpse of Janet Jacksons boob.
540,000 complained (only 0.37%), so the FCC thought they had to prosecute it.
The fact that it didn't offend 143,860,000 people didn't enter into the decision.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

CFQS is sharing another link...
http://www.closetheairport.com/

Again, this is an important issue for all of us. They want to shut down all skydiving.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[DrDom 0]

ryoder

***That whining attitude certainly does effect the airport authority. Especially if there isn't a very strong advocacy for general aviation there. Very often these "authorities" are more influenced by local government and business to the detriment of general aviation.

Agreed; It is the old the-squeaky-wheel-gets-the-grease phenomenon.
Not unlike the Super Bowl XXXVIII halftime show controversy;
144,400,000 viewers got a glimpse of Janet Jacksons boob.
540,000 complained (only 0.37%), so the FCC thought they had to prosecute it.
The fact that it didn't offend 143,860,000 people didn't enter into the decision.

1) General Aviation Fuel Jettission Systems? Uh.. how many GA aircraft use this?
2) We live in a country of hippocrates where on one hand we say "Do the most good for the most people" "democratic rule" but in reality we are a tyrrany of the minority and subject to the whims of "one complainer changes policy".

Her rights to no noise... where does it stop? What about the fact she is encroaching on MY right to "Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness"

I love living in NH... Live Free or Die. The neighbours around the GA airport I fly out of only ask to minimize noise "as able", and fly over the water early morning or evening if "reasonable".

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[ryoder 1,590]

DrDom

2) We live in a country of hippocrates...

Pssst, Doc: That would be hypocrites.
Understandable slip considering your profession.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[theonlyski 8]

DrDom

1) General Aviation Fuel Jettission Systems? Uh.. how many GA aircraft use this?
2) We live in a country of hippocrates where on one hand we say "Do the most good for the most people" "democratic rule" but in reality we are a tyrrany of the minority and subject to the whims of "one complainer changes policy".

Her rights to no noise... where does it stop? What about the fact she is encroaching on MY right to "Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness"

I love living in NH... Live Free or Die. The neighbors around the GA airport I fly out of only ask to minimize noise "as able", and fly over the water early morning or evening if "reasonable".

Someone that appears to be working with Gibby in NJ: https://www.facebook.com/stopeaglesnest

It's absolutely not a localized incident, just one that has been noticed over the others.

Sounds like the airport you fly out of is in a good area. I'm not a huge fan of single engine pistons over water, but I'd be happy to comply with that request.

There is only one noise abatement request at my airport that specifies no turns below 300 for one of our runways (that we hardly use) and I think that's quite reasonable.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[theonlyski 8]

skyjumpenfool

CFQS is sharing another link...
http://www.closetheairport.com/

Again, this is an important issue for all of us. They want to shut down all skydiving.

Don't forget about the petition to stop lead poisoning and stop dumping jet fuel.

http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-jet-fuel-dumping-save-the-sedona-sanctuary

Nearly 3000 signatures already.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[jonstark 8]

The petition's originator is uninformed and inflammatory. That one type of corporate jet has the capability to jettison fuel doesn't mean it ever happens. The system is for rare emergencies only. When a jet that is not certified to land at the weight it took off at must land immediately after take-off it may have to jettison fuel. This would only be done away from populated areas. Never on take-off or landing. The Gulfstream G150 has this system. None of the other Gulfstreams do. They were certified with a waiver to that requirement because they can be inspected for an overweight landing after the fact. If an a/c takes on too much fuel and needs to get rid of some this is done at the FBO by defueling with the same truck that pumped in the first place, never by jettison.

[theonlyski 8]

I am well aware about how wrong they are.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[DrDom 0]

ryoder

***
2) We live in a country of hippocrates...

Pssst, Doc: That would be hypocrites.
Understandable slip considering your profession.

hahaha never caught that, I love the autocorrect on my iPad... most of the time.

Yes hypocrite is what I meant... Hippocrates should at LEAST be capitalized as a proper name.

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[theonlyski 8]

The list of recent signatures:

[inline Signatures.JPG]

They're nowhere near Sedona. Shows how far of a reach some of these people are getting.

ETA: From the petition

Quote

The Airport Mesa requires planes to power up on takeoff due to the down draft planes must counteract. This additional required power creates more noise over neighborhoods on takeoff to the detriment of those who live near the runway.

I don't know bout y'all but when I take off, it's always full power.

Quote

Stress from high noise levels near airports has been proven to increase strokes and heart attacks and cause overall diminished health and quality of life. Stress leaves the body open to all forms of disease. Air craft noise is an unnatural noise that the body cannot adapt to. The Sedona Airport has a curfew in place to operate only during certain hours but pilots routinely fail to observe the posted hours of operation and land at late hours of the night and leave at early hours of the morning, waking up sleeping citizens.

No TFRs or NOTAMs that I can find that restrict the operation hours. I'd like to see where these 'hours of operation' are posted, I'd bet they're the hours of the FBO.

Actually, they have the operations policy (Dated 10/15/2013) listed on the Sedona website that states:
[inline Hours.JPG]

Though further down it does state that flights between 9pm and 7am should be "limited to the extent practical." That by no means is a limitation. It's also funny that they say the hours posted because you won't see any posted hours till you land.

Quote

Timeshares in Sedona give away free helicopter flights to people for coming to a Timeshare presentation. These free flights hurt our town and disturb our peaceful enjoyment. We petition the timeshare companies in Sedona to stop giving away free helicopter flights.

Fine, they'll cost $0.01.

Quote

Noise is costing the City of Sedona money from lost tourism, decreased property values and a lower quality of life. While a few people fly in the air, the enjoyment of those few is at the expense of the many. Most tourists stay in Sedona only one or two days, and often cancel vacations and leave early due to noise and the resultant inability to enjoy peace and quiet on their vacations.

I'd bet that the airport is bringing in more money than the town would make without it. Places with airports are easier to reach for a weekend getaway a few hundred NM away.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[normiss 798]

Another good one who moves near an airport and complains?

I challenge you to find anything on the page that relates to Eagle's Nest.
It's all about going after skydive operations.

They blocked me and removed a ton of comments after it was pointed out they may have made a poor decision on their purchase.

Simply another example that there are people out there that will complain about anything.
Get off my lawn!

[theonlyski 8]

normiss

Another good one who moves near an airport and complains?

I challenge you to find anything on the page that relates to Eagle's Nest.
It's all about going after skydive operations.

They blocked me and removed a ton of comments after it was pointed out they may have made a poor decision on their purchase.

Simply another example that there are people out there that will complain about anything.
Get off my lawn!

I'm banned as well.

I wonder if she's upset about the 172's flying around dumping jet fuel too?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[oldwomanc6 52]

theonlyski

***Another good one who moves near an airport and complains?

I challenge you to find anything on the page that relates to Eagle's Nest.
It's all about going after skydive operations.

They blocked me and removed a ton of comments after it was pointed out they may have made a poor decision on their purchase.

Simply another example that there are people out there that will complain about anything.
Get off my lawn!

I'm banned as well.

I wonder if she's upset about the 172's flying around dumping jet fuel too?
I can't access that page. I never use FB, so I don't know how it works. I was able to look at the page earlier, but not now. Does that mean they took the page down, or did they ban me, too?

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[normiss 798]

It has been taken down.
There's a surprise.

for now anyway.

I'm sure the voices, I mean noises, will return.

[ryoder 1,590]

normiss

It has been taken down.
There's a surprise.

for now anyway.

I'm sure the voices, I mean noises, will return.

I still have the page open, but I can't save it, dammit.

ETA Hey, saving it as "all files" worked!

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[headoverheels 333]

BigMikeH77

In Gibby's defense, the airplane noise MUST be loud.. I mean, if she can hear it over all the voices in her head...

(oooooh BURN!)

Maybe Gibbs has a bit of misaphonia. My wife developed that a
couple of years back, and it causes her (and me) a bit of grief.
Even the sound of my chewing (which is normal, except the
occasional jaw click) can sometimes drive her from the room,
unless she is simultaneously chomping. Maybe Ms Gibbs should meditate each time the plane goes by. "Ommmmmmm".

[oldwomanc6 52]

headoverheels

***In Gibby's defense, the airplane noise MUST be loud.. I mean, if she can hear it over all the voices in her head...

(oooooh BURN!)

Maybe Gibbs has a bit of misaphonia. My wife developed that a
couple of years back, and it causes her (and me) a bit of grief.
Even the sound of my chewing (which is normal, except the
occasional jaw click) can sometimes drive her from the room,
unless she is simultaneously chomping. Maybe Ms Gibbs should meditate MASTICATE each time the plane goes by. "Ommmmmmm".

FIFY

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[theonlyski 8]

oldwomanc6

******In Gibby's defense, the airplane noise MUST be loud.. I mean, if she can hear it over all the voices in her head...

(oooooh BURN!)

Maybe Gibbs has a bit of misaphonia. My wife developed that a
couple of years back, and it causes her (and me) a bit of grief.
Even the sound of my chewing (which is normal, except the
occasional jaw click) can sometimes drive her from the room,
unless she is simultaneously chomping. Maybe Ms Gibbs should meditate MASTICATE MASTURBATE each time the plane goes by. "Ommmmmmm".

FIFY

FIFY!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[BigMikeH77 0]

There will always be a very small number of complainers with nothing positive to do. This isn't limited to Longmont, as it has been recently pointed out. I just came across this 2013 report for St. Louis International Airport which stataes:

"The City of St. Peters recorded the most noise complaints with a total of 188 complaints (90%), all
from one caller."

Remember, these are numbers from an INTERNATIONAL airport. Clearly, the Longmont complainers have nothing better to do if they are so bent out of shape because of the relatively quiet turboprop and piston GA craft.

Keep things in perspective. The complainers are no better than internet trolls who just so happened to have escalated issues to unreasonable levels. Skydiving - and Skydivers - won't be run out of town. In fact, we might just make it a better place.

On an unrelated note, I'm about to head out of town on business - It's been a while since I've boarded a plane and NOT jumped out. How weird.

[peek 21]

Mike, you were the last person to post in this thread some months ago, and I see that you live locally to the discussed dropzones...

Any updates on the issues that you know of?

[theonlyski 8]

http://www.timescall.com/longmont-local-news/ci_27904056/trial-opens-lawsuit-against-longmonts-mile-hi-skydiving

Looks like they're in court for it this week. I'd be interested to hear if anyone is attending and how it's going. Scheduled for the whole week apparently.

That video at the bottom of the article is special too.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[ryoder 1,590]

theonlyski

http://www.timescall.com/longmont-local-news/ci_27904056/trial-opens-lawsuit-against-longmonts-mile-hi-skydiving

Looks like they're in court for it this week. I'd be interested to hear if anyone is attending and how it's going. Scheduled for the whole week apparently.

That video at the bottom of the article is special too.

Much better video: http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/04/13/longmont-resident-in-lawsuit-calls-skydiving-plane-penetrating-debilitating/

I appear twice (briefly) in it.
Oh, and the reporter is a *babe*, who looks much better in person!

I'm trying to take notes of it all, but hell, I could write an article just on the first day.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.