How Do You Avoid Landing Beyond Your Target?

[JENNR8R 0]

If you see that you will be landing beyond your intended target on your final approach, what SAFE and effective ways do you use to avoid it?

What have you seen others do that is NOT safe?

What do you call a beautiful, sunny day that comes after two cloudy, rainy
ones? -- Monday.

[piisfish 140]

"safe" : sashay, hold deep brakes, find an alternate landing wich you will reach and not overshoot

"unsafe" : full stall, "accuracy" type landings (without training and without mattress), low turn, very low turn, low cutaway

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[AFFI 0]

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"safe" : sashay,

Could a sashay on final possibly cause traffic issues to those around you?

[Peej 0]

If there is an object in front of my inteded target, a flat turn/ flare turn.

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[phoenixlpr 0]

It depends. You might correct with some sink/S-turns....

[bradp 0]

By changing your angle of attack using double front risers

[piisfish 140]

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"safe" : sashay,

Could a sashay on final possibly cause traffic issues to those around you?

Yes definitely, this is why I put the safe between brackets.

Would "Sashay in case you don't disturb other traffics" be better ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[kelpdiver 2]

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By changing your angle of attack using double front risers

Is that practical or safe on a lightly loaded canopy? (nevermind the concerns with cutting people off behind and below you) If I got space in front of me, I go long and try to improve next time around.

If I pull really hard on a front riser using the loop (wings riser), I can get a slow turn rate. To do double fronts, I'd need to do a partial flare first, and can't hold it for long.

[bradp 0]

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Is that practical or safe on a lightly loaded canopy? (nevermind the concerns with cutting people off behind and below you) If I got space in front of me, I go long and try to improve next time around.

Im not implying you hold your front risers until you hit the ground. Just temporarily reducing your glide ratio so you dont glide over the target.

Cutting off people behind and below you? How are you going to cut someone off behind you? Use common sense when there is alot of traffic. Be alert and dont do anything that will cut people off.

But i totally agree with you. If you have open space in front of you and you are not trying to avoid hitting an obstacle, then rather land over the target. There is no point in killing yourself or anyone else for the sake of accuracy.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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If I pull really hard on a front riser using the loop (wings riser), I can get a slow turn rate. To do double fronts, I'd need to do a partial flare first, and can't hold it for long.

You have a safe canopy which is trimmed quite flat.

I have the same.

[pilotdave 0]

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hold deep brakes

On most modern canopies, that's only going to help when you're got a bit of headwind. On a very light wind/no wind/downwind landing, you'll go farther (and those are the times people often overshoot their target).

Dave

[AFFI 0]

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If you see that you will be landing beyond your intended target on your final approach, what SAFE and effective ways do you use to avoid it?

Lots of people have talked about concentrating on safety and accuracy will improve with time - good course of action unless there is an obstacle beyond.

Climb the learning curve slowly...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[dharma1976 0]

by choosing where I should be based on my downwind leg

usually at around 800 feet I will be at the same place I will be at landing just appx 300 feet away from it

try getting some dawn beer coachign from an more experienced jumper at your local DZ...

having to correct too much in your final leg can cause a lot of traffic issues.

I got like 20 hours of free coaching about accuracy from this guy at the ranch who also taught me how to get back from long spots etc...

all it cost was standing around...not even the beer he came prepared with that.

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[tbrown 26]

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By changing your angle of attack using double front risers

Is that practical or safe on a lightly loaded canopy? (nevermind the concerns with cutting people off behind and below you) If I got space in front of me, I go long and try to improve next time around.

If I pull really hard on a front riser using the loop (wings riser), I can get a slow turn rate. To do double fronts, I'd need to do a partial flare first, and can't hold it for long.

Like anything else, it's a metter of practice and training yourself. If you briefly pull your toggles down chest high and then grab your fronts, they'll come down a lot more easily. Granted that as you pick up speed the pressure on the fronts will increase, but if you're trying to hold yourself up like a chin-up you might be surprised how long you can hold them. You definitely want to keep an eye on the ground and not get too close for safety or comfort, but you can get a marvelously steep glide angle. As for traffic behind you, you're now falling down and away from them at a faster spped, so they don't have a problem with you. You DO need to look down for anyone below you though, as you don't want to drop in on anybody below flying a nice flat final.

Practice practice practice. Find out what kind of a recovery arc your canopy has at a higher altitude, in other words how fast will it flatten back out when you let up on the fronts. From your description, it sounds like you'd have a short arc with your canopy, but find out BEFORE you need to do it the hard way.

Try to do some of your flying and steering with your fronts on every jump and you'll be pleased with what you learn about controlling them. And you'll get some really buff arms in the bargain.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[bob.dino 1]

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If you see that you will be landing beyond your intended target on your final approach, what SAFE and effective ways do you use to avoid it?

If I'm on final before I realise I'm going to overshoot? I overshoot. If I've done my job correctly, I've chosen a landing 'runway' with plenty of room to both over- and undershoot.

Of course, with practice, I realise earlier on in my approach that I'm too high and adjust my pattern accordingly. Sashaying in the pattern is dangerous, and it also makes it very hard to fix your pattern for the next jump, because you don't know by how far you were going to miss your target.

[kelpdiver 2]

thanks guys.

[MarkM 0]

If I'm going to slam into something and need to cut my LZ short, initiate a flat turn and eat a crosswind landing.

If I'm going really long but it's still a good landing area, just end up with a longer walk and remember to do a better pattern next time.

If I'm going in just a little over the peas and want to hit them, I do some harness shifting to briefly alter how my canopy flies and make it sink in a little more on the final. Though I often get a lot if "Why were you twisting around in your harness" from others when I do it

With any of the above though you have to keep in mind your airspace. Don't do funky things if people are behind you, stay predictable.

[JENNR8R 0]

If I'm going in just a little over the peas and want to hit them, I do some harness shifting to briefly alter how my canopy flies and make it sink in a little more on the final.

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This is the kind of response that I was hoping to get more of. Things people do that I'd never heard of before.

Could you explain exactly what you do that makes this effective? I can't picture it yet...

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[riggerrob 643]

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If I'm going to slam into something and need to cut my LZ short, initiate a flat turn and eat a crosswind landing.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Remind me not to jump behind you.
Changing your landing direction by 90 degrees - at low altitude - will freak out jumpers behind and above you.
I suppose that is better than landing on an obstacle, but avoiding obstacles is better done by flying a better landing pattern, which is a matter of keeping your brain a minute ... a mile ... a thousand feet ahead of your parachute.

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[MarkM 0]

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Remind me not to jump behind you.
Changing your landing direction by 90 degrees - at low altitude - will freak out jumpers behind and above you.

Did you not see my:

With any of the above though you have to keep in mind your airspace. Don't do funky things if people are behind you, stay predictable.

[MarkM 0]

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Could you explain exactly what you do that makes this effective? I can't picture it yet...

I wish I could explain it, but I just sort of feel it out when I do it. You should get Brian Germain's book The Canopy and Its Pilot. It goes into different ways on how you can affect your wing in pretty good detail.

[waltappel 1]

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If you see that you will be landing beyond your intended target on your final approach, what SAFE and effective ways do you use to avoid it?

What have you seen others do that is NOT safe?

There are so many answers to this question and so many scenarios that I hardly know where to begin.

First of all, let's assume no canopies in the air around you. Yes I know that's a huge assumption.

It is axiomatic among accuracy jumpers that on an accuracy approach you need to "fly slow, think fast". When shooting accuracy, you really need to stay ahead of the game to do well at it, so be very aware of your position relative to the target as soon as you open and maintain that awareness all the way down.

If you want to keep a straight-line flite path, what you are talking about is slowing your ground speed. The easiest scenario is when you have some moderately strong winds, say 15 to 20mph. By applying brakes, you can slow your canopy's ground speed or even make your canopy fly backwards relative to the ground. Be very aware of your stall point when you do this, though, and depending on your canopy and its loading, you very likely do not want to land in deep brakes. Give yourself room to return to full flight so you can execute a proper flare. Play with this technique up high when there are stiff winds, then try it lower.

Something I've started doing recently in CRW that's quite interesting is "warping" my canopy. It's a great way to kill off altitude without changing direction of flight and at the same time, slowing forward speed. To do it, simultaneously pull down on a front riser *and* apply opposite rear toggle. This causes your canopy to spill a bunch of air. You would definitely *not* want to land a canopy like this and like any other new technique, play with it up high first. I have not done this on an elliptical canopy, so I don't know how that kind of canopy reacts to this input.

I don't recommend this, but with practice and the right canopy/wingloading you can do stalls and stall turns at relatively low altitudes. Again, I don't recommend this but with a great deal of practice and care, it is an option.

Changing the flight path of your canopy by doing some flavor of S-turns is a very common and good way of killing off altitude, but you need to be very cautious when doing 'em low.

Really, before you decide you are going to use some magic technique to avoid overshooting a target, you need to consider what your target actually is.

At your experience level there is some point above the ground you should be in straight, level full flight and preparing to execute a flare. Do not *ever* forget that and fixate on hitting a target.

Let's say that your point for being in straight, level full flight is 60 ft. or so above the ground and that winds are very low. You'll need to be somewhere around 100+ feet downwind of the target, faced into the wind at about 60 ft. if you want to hit the target. THAT is the target you need to be shooting for when you are up high--the point where you need to be so you can execute a flare from straight, level full flight.

You can do all sorts of things to get there, but get to that point, then stop all the tricks. Have your canopy at full flight then flare.

Whatever you do, don't wait until you are low to start your accuracy. Do that all the way down.

If there is someone on your DZ who is pretty good on accuracy, e.g., a PRO rating holder, have them talk you through some accuracy approaches and do that in different conditions.

Feel free to PM me if any of this is unclear.

Walt

[velvetjo 0]

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Something I've started doing recently in CRW that's quite interesting is "warping" my canopy. It's a great way to kill off altitude without changing direction of flight and at the same time, slowing forward speed. To do it, simultaneously pull down on a front riser *and* apply opposite rear toggle. This causes your canopy to spill a bunch of air. You would definitely *not* want to land a canopy like this and like any other new technique, play with it up high first. I have not done this on an elliptical canopy, so I don't know how that kind of canopy reacts to this input.

Cool technique. That sounds a lot like a side-slip on final for an airplane, mainly because of the crossed controls and altitude loss. Granted, we don't have a rudder, but by warping the wing it sounds like it accomplishes the same thing.

Anybody tried it on an elliptical? If so, are there any nasty characteristics? How long is the recovery and on what kind of canopy?

Thanks,

Lance

[waltappel 1]

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Cool technique. That sounds a lot like a side-slip on final for an airplane, mainly because of the crossed controls and altitude loss. Granted, we don't have a rudder, but by warping the wing it sounds like it accomplishes the same thing.

Anybody tried it on an elliptical? If so, are there any nasty characteristics? How long is the recovery and on what kind of canopy?

Thanks,

Lance

It's very much like a side-slip on a plane and works great!

Walt