wmw999 2,530 #1 Posted July 24, 2020 I have a young relative who's involved with the current spate of activism. They are not vandalizing anything. They were arrested a couple of months ago on a protest-related charge, booked, and released without a charge. They were picked up at home last night by officers who refused to show a warrant; taken downtown and strip-searched, and placed in a cell. Officers made too much noise (i.e. whistles, banging bars, etc) for any sleep to happen. Then late at night they were given their clothes back and told to walk home. No charge, no appearance, no nothing. Their main point in saying this was "if they have enough time on their hands to do this, why not invest a litlte more in health care and housing?" This is not acceptable. I'm seeing the other side of the story. Do we want to spend more of our society's money controlling people, or providing for them? If freedom is so important, I'd imagine that controlling should be a last, rather than a first, resort. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,065 #2 July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, wmw999 said: Their main point in saying this was "if they have enough time on their hands to do this, why not invest a litlte more in health care and housing?" Health care and housing doesn't win elections. Dividing the populace, and sowing fear and distrust, does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #3 July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, wmw999 said: I have a young relative who's involved with the current spate of activism. They are not vandalizing anything. They were arrested a couple of months ago on a protest-related charge, booked, and released without a charge. They were picked up at home last night by officers who refused to show a warrant; taken downtown and strip-searched, and placed in a cell. Officers made too much noise (i.e. whistles, banging bars, etc) for any sleep to happen. Then late at night they were given their clothes back and told to walk home. No charge, no appearance, no nothing. Their main point in saying this was "if they have enough time on their hands to do this, why not invest a litlte more in health care and housing?" This is not acceptable. I'm seeing the other side of the story. Do we want to spend more of our society's money controlling people, or providing for them? If freedom is so important, I'd imagine that controlling should be a last, rather than a first, resort. Wendy P. They need to speak to a civil rights lawyer and document the whole thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,530 #4 July 24, 2020 (edited) Yep. We’re talking to them, and to other people we know. They have a lawyer, but not civil rights specialized. They need an eloquent pissed-off civil rights and activism specialist. Wendy P. Edited July 24, 2020 by wmw999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,149 #5 July 24, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, wmw999 said: Yep. We’re talking to them, and to other people we know. They have a lawyer, but not civil rights specialized. They need an eloquent pissed-off civil rights and activism specialist. Wendy P. Yes unfortunately in China, Russia,Iran and quite a few other countries harassment is a part of the state. "The ACLU protects your freedom through a nationwide network of staffed offices in every state, Washington, D.C., and Puerto Rico. To request legal assistance or get involved, find your local ACLU affiliate below." Edited July 24, 2020 by Phil1111 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 848 #6 July 24, 2020 4 hours ago, wmw999 said: I have a young relative who's involved with the current spate of activism. They are not vandalizing anything. They were arrested a couple of months ago on a protest-related charge, booked, and released without a charge. They were picked up at home last night by officers who refused to show a warrant; taken downtown and strip-searched, and placed in a cell. Officers made too much noise (i.e. whistles, banging bars, etc) for any sleep to happen. Then late at night they were given their clothes back and told to walk home. No charge, no appearance, no nothing. Their main point in saying this was "if they have enough time on their hands to do this, why not invest a litlte more in health care and housing?" This is not acceptable. I'm seeing the other side of the story. Do we want to spend more of our society's money controlling people, or providing for them? If freedom is so important, I'd imagine that controlling should be a last, rather than a first, resort. Wendy P. Did these "officers" have the ZTI patch? It's being reported that the "federal officers" are a contracted company. Which makes them a private army. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,814 #7 July 24, 2020 7 hours ago, wmw999 said: I have a young relative who's involved with the current spate of activism. They are not vandalizing anything. They were arrested a couple of months ago on a protest-related charge, booked, and released without a charge. They were picked up at home last night by officers who refused to show a warrant; taken downtown and strip-searched, and placed in a cell. Officers made too much noise (i.e. whistles, banging bars, etc) for any sleep to happen. Then late at night they were given their clothes back and told to walk home. No charge, no appearance, no nothing. Their main point in saying this was "if they have enough time on their hands to do this, why not invest a litlte more in health care and housing?" This is not acceptable. I'm seeing the other side of the story. Do we want to spend more of our society's money controlling people, or providing for them? If freedom is so important, I'd imagine that controlling should be a last, rather than a first, resort. Wendy P. Absolutely appalling. We're no land of the free anymore, that's sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lippy 918 #8 July 24, 2020 Curious which city Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,149 #9 July 25, 2020 (edited) American Catastrophe Through German Eyes NYT editiorial Basis of above story fro Der Spiegel Democracy on the Defensive in Trump's America "Not long ago, it seemed absurd to question the strength of America's system of checks and balances. U.S. democracy, more than 200 years old, has survived numerous crises and its resilience has always withstood attempts to grab power. But after more than three years of Trump, and despite him being the democratically elected president, the foundations of American democracy have grown brittle. Trump has continually pushed back the limits of what was considered acceptable under his predecessors. Flouting tradition, he placed the powerful Department of the Interior and the intelligence agencies in the hands of loyal acolytes. "It's very frightening," says Rosa Brooks, a professor of law at Georgetown University. "I hope that I'm being much too paranoid but it's hard not to think of things like the Reichstag fire at this moment." Both outline the rise and danger of fascism and the lessons learned from a German pov. It seems absurd that this thread has so few responses.I guess 1100 dead Americans a day has properly distracted America from trump's latest outrage. Edited July 25, 2020 by Phil1111 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #10 July 25, 2020 Wow! Holy distortion of priorities, Batman! Protest movements usually start when a nation has an excess of young people and a shortage of jobs (see Nazi Germany, 1960s Peace Movement, Arab Spring, etc.). During the Great Depression (1930s) the Canadian and USA governments recognized the problem and set up civilian works programs to convert unemployed labourers in civil infrastructure (TVA, Hoover Dam, etc.). This year, jobs have been limited by the COVID-19 quarantine. The short term solution is bullying protestors into silence while the long term solution is providing more jobs to keep people too busy to protest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,402 #11 July 26, 2020 On 7/24/2020 at 2:48 PM, normiss said: ZTI patch? It's being reported that the "federal officers" are a contracted company. Which makes them a private army. Incorrect. It's not ZT -i; It's ZT-1 ZT-i is a private security company; ZT-1 is an identifier. https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/zti-patch-portland-zt1/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,814 #12 July 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, BIGUN said: Incorrect. It's not ZT -i; It's ZT-1 ZT-i is a private security company; ZT-1 is an identifier. https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/zti-patch-portland-zt1/ Well, damn, that's a relief. And here poor, dumb ol' me thought it was a cool new brand of camo from Under Armour or Undefeated not a way to anonymize the governments thug army. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #13 July 26, 2020 Meteorologist Marty Coniglio leaves 9News after comparing federal troops to Nazis https://www.denverpost.com/2020/07/25/9news-meteorologist-marty-coniglio-tweet-nazis/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,249 #14 July 26, 2020 37 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: Well, damn, that's a relief. And here poor, dumb ol' me thought it was a cool new brand of camo from Under Armour or Undefeated not a way to anonymize the governments thug army. You are confusing camo with brown shirts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,402 #15 July 26, 2020 1 hour ago, JoeWeber said: Well, damn, that's a relief. And here poor, dumb ol' me thought it was a cool new brand of camo from Under Armour or Undefeated not a way to anonymize the governments thug army. Facts are facts, but I get your point and it's been the same as mine in previous threads. And, I've been saying "Police should not be dressed like soldiers" for awhile. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/20/mark-hertling-police-portland/ 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,430 #16 July 26, 2020 1 hour ago, BIGUN said: And, I've been saying "Police should not be dressed like soldiers" for awhile. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/20/mark-hertling-police-portland/ Hi Keith, You & I disagree on a number of things; but, this is one ( among others ) that we are in lock-step. From your link: “Tell him, ‘Hell, no,’” the MP commander told me emphatically. Jerry Baumchen 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #17 July 28, 2020 On 7/26/2020 at 7:48 AM, BIGUN said: Incorrect. It's not ZT -i; It's ZT-1 ZT-i is a private security company; ZT-1 is an identifier. https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/zti-patch-portland-zt1/ Secret Police taking people from their houses. Remember when you got really upset the US was being compared to a Banana Republic? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,402 #18 July 29, 2020 23 hours ago, SkyDekker said: Secret Police See post 15. The US is not a Banana Republic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #19 July 29, 2020 24 minutes ago, BIGUN said: See post 15. The US is not a Banana Republic No. But we are quickly approaching an authoritarian dictatorship. Kinda like Russia or North Korea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,402 #20 July 29, 2020 1 minute ago, wolfriverjoe said: But we are quickly approaching an authoritarian dictatorship. No we're not. You're banned from CNN for a week. Go to your room. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #21 July 29, 2020 1 minute ago, BIGUN said: No we're not. You're banned from CNN for a week. Go to your room. I don't watch CNN. I don't have cable (or satellite or anything). There are 'secret police' on the streets of Portland. They are assaulting people. Beating a dude who's just standing there holding his hands out is assault. Pointing a shotgun at very close range at the head of a person who's just standing there is assault with a deadly weapon. Grabbing a woman detainee by the breast and buttock is sexual assault (that last one is alleged, the other two have been filmed). They're 'proactively arresting' people. That means arresting them before they commit a crime. Trump has made it clear he's sending those agents to cities and states controlled by Democrats. Funny how the AG testified that he 'wasn't aware' of the ARMED Alt-Right demonstrators who stormed a state capitol and surrounded a governor's mansion (and hanged an effigy of the governor). Trump has had his minion interfere in the justice process. Flynn & Stone. Both are unprecedented. Barr denied that during sworn testimony. Not to mention attacking the press at every opportunity, pretending that there's widespread fraud with mail in ballots, calling for the military to quell protected protest (which I'm VERY happy to say that the military outright refused to do), and a host of other things right out of the 'authoritarian dictator' playbook. Given the response of the military, the governor of Oregon (and many other state & local officials there), along with the 'moms' 'dads' & 'veterans' who are standing up to the federal 'storm troopers', I don't believe Trump will succeed. But I don't doubt that he will keep trying. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,149 #22 July 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: No. But we are quickly approaching an authoritarian dictatorship. Kinda like Russia or North Korea. 8 minutes ago, BIGUN said: No we're not. You're banned from CNN for a week. Go to your room. Joe is on the right track but a bit premature. I'll roll with Bigun on this one. Now if trump has his way, W/O an election upcoming, W/O a independent Judiciary. trump and Barr would be off to a good start on the dictatorship. The senate is currently a body of yes-men.More than anything it shows the vulnerabilities of US checks and balances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,065 #23 July 29, 2020 22 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: There are 'secret police' on the streets of Portland. They are assaulting people. Beating a dude who's just standing there holding his hands out is assault. Pointing a shotgun at very close range at the head of a person who's just standing there is assault with a deadly weapon. Grabbing a woman detainee by the breast and buttock is sexual assault (that last one is alleged, the other two have been filmed). They're 'proactively arresting' people. That means arresting them before they commit a crime. Anyone want to bet that Trump sends the secret police back home on Nov 4? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 104 #24 July 29, 2020 1 minute ago, billvon said: Anyone want to bet that Trump sends the secret police back home on Nov 4? I don't think so. My guess is he sends more. He will need them to quell the violence that will occur when he challenges the election results based on nothing other than he can't accept the fact that he lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #25 July 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, okalb said: I don't think so. My guess is he sends more. He will need them to quell the violence that will occur when he challenges the election results based on nothing other than he can't accept the fact that he lost. Or, the uprising if he wins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites