Hypocrisy of the left

[airdvr 210]

I don't disagree Phil, but you can't neuter the entire force and expect them to be able to do their jobs.  And yes, the unions need  reigned in.

[Phil1111 1,149]

6 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I don't disagree Phil, but you can't neuter the entire force and expect them to be able to do their jobs.  And yes, the unions need  reigned in.

I know lots of cops and used to go shooting with them fairly often. They collectively view  criticism of bad cops as an assault on their jobs and personal identity. They are shortchanged by bad pay, poor training and a overemphasis on lethal defense. Lethal defense because the public is always ready to kill them. That every interaction with the public is inherently dangerous and the Glock on the hip is your way home that night.

Specialty training of hostage rescue specialists where they emphasize talking, waiting, listening, deescalation is missing in beat cops. For beat cops its order, expect compliance and resistance licensees lethal force. LE needs more emphasis on backing off, calling more backup, patience and deescalation.

[JoeWeber 2,827]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

Laws are all we have to differentiate ourselves from chaos.  We need someone to enforce those laws.  Give me examples where LEO murdered someone who was just walking down the street.  These things always start with the victim breaking the law in some fashion.

Look at the Rayshard Brooks video.  There was a very clear point where the cop could have gotten control of the situation with a chokehold.  But that option has been removed.  Not saying Rayshard Brooks should have been shot like that but it might have been avoided altogether if the police had the tools they need to do their jobs.

I understand completely the need for change but we've put the police in no-win situations time and again.

You only reinforce my points. Step away from the obvious fact that law enforcement is a social necessity. No one is arguing otherwise. Nor is anyone arguing that the overwhelming percentage of cops are not good people out doing a hard and sometimes dangerous job well. The argument is that none of that is an explanation, much less an excuse, for killing citizens who are not in the act of harming someone. The argument is that what's missing is a softer touch and some serious, real time, accountability when bad cops do horrible things like shoot someone several times in the back at close range. The argument is that there is no valid argument that we need accept those acts as an inevitable cost of our general societal protective scheme.

 

[billvon 3,072]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Laws are all we have to differentiate ourselves from chaos.  We need someone to enforce those laws.  Give me examples where LEO murdered someone who was just walking down the street.  These things always start with the victim breaking the law in some fashion.

Here's a report about a woman just standing inside HER OWN HOUSE shot and killed by police:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/13/fort-worth-police-officer-fatally-shoots-woman-her-home-while-checking-an-open-front-door/

 

[kallend 2,106]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

I don't disagree Phil, but you can't neuter the entire force and expect them to be able to do their jobs.  And yes, the unions need  reigned in.

Explain why it takes 10 years for British police to kill as many people as US cops kill in an average month.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

8 minutes ago, kallend said:

Explain why it takes 10 years for British police to kill as many people as US cops kill in an average month.

Well, that is clearly because an armed society is a polite society....

[SkyDekker 1,465]

3 hours ago, airdvr said:

These things always start with the victim breaking the law in some fashion.

Looks like they actually start with steakhouse gift cards.

[turtlespeed 226]

On 9/17/2020 at 4:42 PM, SkyDekker said:

Except that when LEO steps out of bounds they tend to be put on paid administrative leave for a few years. Generally even if fired, they get rehired by another agency. 

Because there are labor laws, unions, and a litigious society.

[turtlespeed 226]

On 9/17/2020 at 4:43 PM, kallend said:

Must be time to dig out  the Boston Tea Party picture again.

Well, when you can explain the taxation that is not represented . . .

If anything it is overly represented.

[turtlespeed 226]

On 9/18/2020 at 12:24 PM, kallend said:

Explain why it takes 10 years for British police to kill as many people as US cops kill in an average month.

Because they don't have the criminal element we have here.

[turtlespeed 226]

On 9/18/2020 at 12:58 PM, SkyDekker said:

Looks like they actually start with steakhouse gift cards.

All of them?  Most of them?  A few of them? or just that one?

[jakee 1,563]

11 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Because they don't have the criminal element we have here.

Funny, I remember the days of gun rights arguments here when all you right wingers would be wailing about how incredibly high the crime rate was in the UK because good people couldn't carry guns. 

[kallend 2,106]

41 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Because they don't have the criminal element we have here.

Very droll.

[turtlespeed 226]

2 minutes ago, kallend said:

Very droll.

Very true, though, isn't it?

[billvon 3,072]

5 hours ago, jakee said:

Funny, I remember the days of gun rights arguments here when all you right wingers would be wailing about how incredibly high the crime rate was in the UK because good people couldn't carry guns. 

Well, they need the cause of that to be different now.  Wait a year and it will be because they are English wimps or something.

[turtlespeed 226]

8 hours ago, billvon said:

Well, they need the cause of that to be different now.  Wait a year and it will be because they are English wimps or something.

And they call me out for conjecture?

Bah!

[kallend 2,106]

14 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Very true, though, isn't it?

No.

 

[kallend 2,106]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

And they call me out for conjecture?

Bah!

No.  You are called out for equating facts with conjecture.

[kallend 2,106]

So certain right wingers on here criticized Biden for announcing he'd choose a woman for VP.

I wonder how they will weasel out of Trump's announcement that he will appoint a woman to the SCOTUS vacancy.

[billvon 3,072]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

So certain right wingers on here criticized Biden for announcing he'd choose a woman for VP.

I wonder how they will weasel out of Trump's announcement that he will appoint a woman to the SCOTUS vacancy.

They will say "good for him for supporting a woman - I bet the left HATES that!  Hypocrisy much?"

[turtlespeed 226]

11 hours ago, billvon said:

They will say "good for him for supporting a woman - I bet the left HATES that!  Hypocrisy much?"

Which right wingers?

I want to wait for the replies and match them up.

It is a shame that the sex of a person is politicized, isn't it?

[turtlespeed 226]

13 hours ago, kallend said:

No.

 

Let me ask this then.  Is the violent crime rate higher or lower in the UK?

[kallend 2,106]

44 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Let me ask this then.  Is the violent crime rate higher or lower in the UK?

Excluding homicides, it is much the same.  

But in the fictional,  rural, bucolic county of Midsomer, the homicide rate is astronomical.

[JoeWeber 2,827]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Excluding homicides, it is much the same.  

 But in the fictional,  rural, bucolic county of Midsomer, the homicide rate is astronomical.

Perfect person with whom to use the Midsomer analogy. 

[olofscience 489]

On 9/19/2020 at 11:07 PM, turtlespeed said:

Because they don't have the criminal element we have here.

What does this even mean? Another evidence-free "americans are speshul" statement, only in the negative sense?