Dropzones for Tandems under 16 years old

[RMK 3]

Following are two European dropzones where under 16s can do a tandem:

Empuriabrava, ESP: limit of minimum 35kg and 120cm height
Prostejov, CZK: minimum age 12yrs

Anyone aware of other European DZs for under 16yrs?

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[Pobrause 6]

Pretty much all german ones. Needs to fit the harness and the consent of BOTH parents is required

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[piisfish 140]

All Switzerland. No legal minimum.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Rover 11]

Pobrause

Pretty much all german ones. Needs to fit the harness and the consent of BOTH parents is required

What if one of the parents is dead?

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[Pobrause 6]

Rover

***Pretty much all german ones. Needs to fit the harness and the consent of BOTH parents all legal guardians is required

What if one of the parents is dead?

Nitpicker

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[mr2mk1g 10]

Depends how you define "European". Kalomna (just south of Moscow) were jumping very young kids when I was there 10 years ago or so. Like 5 or 6 years old - if they could make the harness fit they jumped.

[shorehambeach 9]

France. Skydive Royan (West Coast)

Both parents signature and a doctors letter.

13yrs old.

[RMK 3]

From the replies above, this is much more widely available than I thought.

My 10yr old son just did a tandem in Empuriabrava. They too needed authorisation from both parents. My wife didn’t travel with us so they needed an authorisation letter signed by her and a copy of her passport.

My son loved the jump. Won’t be a too regular occurrence, but will get him the odd follow-on jump as a treat.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[Jumpdude 0]

This is why USPA should be abolished! They are nothing more than a voluntary membership club, which a lot of people believe they have some kind of governing power, or dictatorship over skydiving, when in reality, the ONLY governing power we have to answer to is the FAA! USPA set a rule of 18 and up, but who are they to say a 15 year old can or can't jump? They CANNOT pull a ramp check, they CANNOT show up and say any certain jumper can't jump! They can pull the licenses and ratings that they issue, but there again, they CANNOT tell us we can't jump! And having that card in our wallet does not make us a better jumper, only a bragging right of having a certain license or rating! As for Demo's, I've done quite a few, and so far, not one time, have I notified USPA! FAA,,, Each and every time though, and they have NEVER, not one time asked me about any affiliation with USPA!
The point is, In the US, The USPA has killed a huge part of our market by setting their age at 18, which is BS! I've been told that the Tandem rig manufacturers have the same rule of 18, there's ways around that as well!

[gowlerk 2,250]

Dude, calm down. There is no rule saying DZs have to belong to USPA. Go ahead and open your own non USPA DZ. Take 12 YOs on tandems. USPA will not bother you about it. Others may though......

Good luck with the US legal system if a minor gets hurt on your DZ. The waiver they, or even their parents sign will be invalid. (which is the real reason underage tandems are strongly discouraged in your country)

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Slimrn 6]

At the risk of breaking my rule of not arguing with strangers on the internet, here goes:

The USPA is more than a membership club. It is an association that meets at regular intervals to analyze different aspect of the sport. It appears to the normal jumper to have the effect of standardization of guidelines and safety recommendations which in a sport such as ours tends to be more helpful than it is restrictive. This is an opinion. Benevolence versus Paternalism. There are many aspects of the USPA that many jumpers don't like, but to throw the baby out with the bath water and just be a conglomeration of bandito dropzones is not something I can imagine would result in a safer sport. Seeing my friends heathy is the most importnant thing in the sport to me.

[Jumpdude 0]

I'm not in any way saying the USPA is a bad thing, just that a lot of people think they are like the "All governing authority" over skydiving! Their rating system is a good thing to have, and the methods of teaching is ok, USPA does not have to have their hands in teaching new jumpers to skydive, But their age rule is bullshit! As for state government rules, if a kid can ride a roller coaster, especially the ones that go upside down, why can't they jump? and I absolutely hate going to a dropzone and being told I can't jump there because I'm not a USPA member!

[gowlerk 2,250]

Quote

and I absolutely hate going to a dropzone and being told I can't jump there because I'm not a USPA member!

I get the same reaction from Canadian USPA members who don't want to buy a CSPA membership to jump at our DZ. We honour USPA memberships for American visitors, but if you are Canadian and want to jump at a CSPA DZ you will need to buy a CSPA membership.

No sympathy for you at all. You do not have a right to a jump ticket anywhere you want. Buy your own airplane, start your own DZ, or go to Lodi or another non USPA DZ. My DZ, my airplane, my legal risks, my rules. Don't like it? Too fucking bad.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Jumpdude 0]

gowlerk

Quote

and I absolutely hate going to a dropzone and being told I can't jump there because I'm not a USPA member!

I get the same reaction from Canadian USPA members who don't want to buy a CSPA membership to jump at our DZ. We honour USPA memberships for American visitors, but if you are Canadian and want to jump at a CSPA DZ you will need to buy a CSPA membership.

No sympathy for you at all. You do not have a right to a jump ticket anywhere you want. Buy your own airplane, start your own DZ, or go to Lodi or another non USPA DZ. My DZ, my airplane, my legal risks, my rules. Don't like it? Too fucking bad.

So exactly what does it benefit you/your DZ if someone pounds in? Are they going to pay for the funeral or the ash dive? (Assuming CSPA and USPA are set up the same way)

[RMK 3]

The minimum age in the UK (BPA) is 16yrs. I always assumed the US (USPA) was the same; I didn't know it was 18yrs.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[Jumpdude 0]

RMK

The minimum age in the UK (BPA) is 16yrs. I always assumed the US (USPA) was the same; I didn't know it was 18yrs.

It's only the USPA and maybe Manufacturers who says 18, But USPA doesn't mean shit, do it anyway!

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

RMK

The minimum age in the UK (BPA) is 16yrs. I always assumed the US (USPA) was the same; I didn't know it was 18yrs.

It used to be 16 for the USPA. Then the manufacturers got tired of being sued when a minor got hurt and made USPA raise the age to 18.

It can be waived. There is a 16 year old who got his A last year. DZO's kid. Both parents on board with it. Dad is DZO, he & mom aren't together anymore but mom is fine with it, proud as hell actually. She "likes & shares" a lot of the jump pics.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[gowlerk 2,250]

Quote

So exactly what does it benefit you/your DZ if someone pounds in? Are they going to pay for the funeral or the ash dive? (Assuming CSPA and USPA are set up the same way)

It doesn't make any difference. It's about 3rd party liability. (The airport, spectators, aircraft on the ground, other people's property) It has nothing at all to do with your funeral or your medical expenses. That's the heart of your problem. You only see it as about you. It's not about you or how you skydive or how safe you are at all. It's about our commitment to running our operation the way we have agreed to. It's about us living up to our standards. And it's about us supporting the National Association that we perceive as supporting us and the sport in our country. It doesn't matter to me if you don't see the organization as worthwhile. I do, and we do and we make the rules at the DZ we own. Don't like it? Well you know what you can do........


You can be part of the team or not. It's your choice. If you want to play on our team you must join our club. Or you can start your own club. We'll miss you. But not that much!

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[topdocker 0]

wolfriverjoe

***The minimum age in the UK (BPA) is 16yrs. I always assumed the US (USPA) was the same; I didn't know it was 18yrs.

It used to be 16 for the USPA. Then the manufacturers got tired of being sued when a minor got hurt and made USPA raise the age to 18.

It can be waived. There is a 16 year old who got his A last year. DZO's kid. Both parents on board with it. Dad is DZO, he & mom aren't together anymore but mom is fine with it, proud as hell actually. She "likes & shares" a lot of the jump pics.

Absolutely not true.

The tandem rig manufacturers feared lawsuits. Certain states do not allow parents to sign away juvenile rights. Most states do, especially those with a large tourism/sport industry. Having sat through the BOD meeting where it was voted through, it was complete BS. The BSR had nothing to do with safety and everything to do with a lot of BOD members wanting to keep their gear discount or sponsorship.

top

Jump more, post less!

[billvon 3,073]

Quote

I'm not in any way saying the USPA is a bad thing, just that a lot of people think they are like the "All governing authority" over skydiving! Their rating system is a good thing to have, and the methods of teaching is ok, USPA does not have to have their hands in teaching new jumpers to skydive, But their age rule is bullshit!

It's no more or less bullshit than any other membership limitation. One of their charters is to protect DZ's, and requiring jumpers to be 18 years old protects DZ's.

Quote

As for state government rules, if a kid can ride a roller coaster, especially the ones that go upside down, why can't they jump?

Nothing stops them physically. (I was jumping with Mike Mullins' kid when he was 12.) But if they get hurt - and people do get hurt skydiving - it could be the end of the DZ, because the resulting lawsuit will take everything they own.

Quote

I absolutely hate going to a dropzone and being told I can't jump there because I'm not a USPA member!

So join. (Or don't; up to you.)

[JohnMitchell 16]

gowlerk

We honour USPA memberships for American visitors,

Wish Australia did that. We had to get the one month membership when we made a few jumps there. Had a ton of fun, but noticed the Aussies' association has a pretty tight lock on the game.

[gowlerk 2,250]

JohnMitchell

***
We honour USPA memberships for American visitors,

Wish Australia did that. We had to get the one month membership when we made a few jumps there. Had a ton of fun, but noticed the Aussies' association has a pretty tight lock on the game.

Bloody 'ell! That's a bit of a scam. USPA used to do that to Canadians, but they've dropped it. First the big destination DZs stopped enforcing it and then I guess they all did. I haven't heard of it for years.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Divalent 145]

topdocker

The tandem rig manufacturers feared lawsuits. Certain states do not allow parents to sign away juvenile rights. Most states do, especially those with a large tourism/sport industry. Having sat through the BOD meeting where it was voted through, it was complete BS. The BSR had nothing to do with safety and everything to do with a lot of BOD members wanting to keep their gear discount or sponsorship.

top

Well, from the DZO's and tandem MFG's perspectives, a 16-18 change in minimum age probably only resulted in a slight pause in revenue (and probably only a very small revenue hit at that). Most people only do one tandem in their lifetime, and chances are if they want to do one at 16, they will eventually do it after they turn 18.

And it may well also be that an eager 18 yo is more likely to bring along a group of friends that also don't need parental permission to jump, so possibly overall better for the DZ's (and MFG's) bottom line in the long run.

[gowlerk 2,250]

Quote

And it may well also be that an eager 18 yo is more likely to bring along a group of friends that also don't need parental permission to jump, so possibly overall better for the DZ's (and MFG's) bottom line in the long run.

I like your thinking.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[hcsvader 1]

JohnMitchell

***
We honour USPA memberships for American visitors,

Wish Australia did that. We had to get the one month membership when we made a few jumps there. Had a ton of fun, but noticed the Aussies' association has a pretty tight lock on the game.
And i had to buy a temp uspa membership to jump at some dzs when i was in America last year. About the cost of a jump ticket to make fully sure your covered, not a big deal.

Min age here is 14 but waivers are also avaiable for younger.

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)