Who will win the 2020 election?

[JoeWeber 2,720]

2 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I think the Deed restrictions prohibit that.  Would it bother me?  Sure it would but I would instantly know what an asshat my neighbor is and it's still a first amendment issue.

You guys want to start sanitizing history you'd better make sure you don't get caught up in the shitstorm.

You didn't answer from yesterday: 

Do you trust yourself? Let me ask you, do you believe there was voter fraud or wrongdoing of any kind sufficient to justify Trump's refusal to engage Biden and Biden's team in the transition process?

[JoeWeber 2,720]

8 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I'm not shouting anything.  I know who he is and I know who he isn't and i still chose to vote for him.  That's my business and no one else's.  As I said earlier censorship doesn't know party lines.  

As an aside I fully accept that Biden won.  

My follow up to yesterday's question was posted simultaneously. Thanks for the answer. New question: given your claim to know who he is and isn't, and given that you accept the fact that Biden won, how do you feel about voting for him now?

[airdvr 210]

Given the choices I wouldn't change.

It's not about whether I believe there was fraud.  The system needs to be designed in such a way as to insure the mere hint of impropriety is avoided.

It's very simple.  Back in the day if you wanted an absentee ballot you had to have a good reason.  I understand with Covid the need for mail-in ballots was huge.  Even so, a really simple change could be made to say if you want the convenience of a mail-in ballot it needs to be postmarked X number of days prior to the election.  Let's say 7 days.  This way all of the mail-in ballots are received, can be inspected, and the numbers verified and tabulated prior to the day of election.  Folks deployed overseas could also handle the date requirement.

[airdvr 210]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

Responsible journalists have a responsibility to not report lies.  It goes with the territory.

 

No it doesn't.  They can put up a crawl that refutes what is being claimed.  To decide not to broadcast it is not their job.

[okalb 104]

1 minute ago, airdvr said:

Given the choices I wouldn't change.

It's not about whether I believe there was fraud.  The system needs to be designed in such a way as to insure the mere hint of impropriety is avoided.

It's very simple.  Back in the day if you wanted an absentee ballot you had to have a good reason.  I understand with Covid the need for mail-in ballots was huge.  Even so, a really simple change could be made to say if you want the convenience of a mail-in ballot it needs to be postmarked X number of days prior to the election.  Let's say 7 days.  This way all of the mail-in ballots are received, can be inspected, and the numbers verified and tabulated prior to the day of election.  Folks deployed overseas could also handle the date requirement.

Pennsylvania was trying to allow ballots to start being counted before election day because they knew there would be tons of mail-ins. The Trump team sued to stop them from counting the ballots early and won. So Penn couldn't start counting until election day and then Trump demanded that they be finished counting on election day.

 

[gowlerk 2,190]

2 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Even so, a really simple change could be made to say if you want the convenience of a mail-in ballot it needs to be postmarked X number of days prior to the election.  Let's say 7 days.  This way all of the mail-in ballots are received, can be inspected, and the numbers verified and tabulated prior to the day of election.

What a great idea, pre-proscessing  would be. Too bad several R controlled states refused to allow it.

[airdvr 210]

1 minute ago, okalb said:

Pennsylvania was trying to allow ballots to start being counted before election day because they knew there would be tons of mail-ins. The Trump team sued to stop them from counting the ballots early and won. So Penn couldn't start counting until election day and then Trump demanded that they be finished counting on election day.

 

Again, somehow we need to be able to have a victor on election night.  I didn't realize Trump did that.  I'd have to look hard at the court that allowed that argument to stand.

[okalb 104]

2 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Again, somehow we need to be able to have a victor on election night.  I didn't realize Trump did that.  I'd have to look hard at the court that allowed that argument to stand.

It was the SCOTUS

[Phil1111 1,149]

8 minutes ago, airdvr said:

No it doesn't.  They can put up a crawl that refutes what is being claimed.  To decide not to broadcast it is not their job.

Journalism teaches that they report the news with integrity. Who, what when, where, why, all are supposed to be reported with as little bias as possible. Interactive link

Edited November 11, 2020 by Phil1111

[SkyDekker 1,465]

11 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Again, somehow we need to be able to have a victor on election night.

You’ve never had one. You’ve only had that when the media called it. Your side is arguing that isn’t valid. 
 

As usual Republicans are talking out of both sides of their mouths. Mainly because they stand for nothing. They have no backbone. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

...As usual Republicans are talking out of both sides of their mouths. Mainly because they stand for nothing. They have no backbone. 

Thats not true the GOP represents red states and plays the ignorance of their base for the betterment of business and self employed inclined to small to no government. Don't confuse a lack of morals in spreading ignorance and lies with not standing for anything.

The rule of law, the constitution, America as a whole are all in play to shrink government to defense and policing. With a minor role of education and public regulation.

[gowlerk 2,190]

14 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Again, somehow we need to be able to have a victor on election night

Why? Counting accurately is far more important than haste. Ohio would be a good model to follow. They counted all the mail ins first and had a result on election night. But Trump had 53% there. If it had been closer it would have taken longer. Close votes will not be finalized on election night.

[wmw999 2,444]

Close votes generally trigger recounts. As far as the mail-in ballot, well, there are states that do virtually all of their ballots by mail -- and their citizens are happy with that. Early voting used not to be a thing; now nearly every state has early voting. Each state does their own thing as far as voting is concerned (including voter suppression, now effectively without the Voting Rights Act to mess with them), and as a country that's how it's been done since the beginning.

Now all of a sudden all these states-rights folks, who scream bloody murder if you mess with some state's right to have whatever law about abortion or gun control, are screaming bloody murder for the federal government to effectively take over (i.e. validate and/or recount) elections. Because they trust that a Trump Administration-selected group will come to the "right" answer, because, after all, it's inconceivable that their little bubble-generated certainty that Trump would be re-elected in a landslide is actually wrong.

Wendy P.

[airdvr 210]

4 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

. Because they trust that a Trump Administration-selected group will come to the "right" answer, because, after all, it's inconceivable that their little bubble-generated certainty that Trump would be re-elected in a landslide is actually wrong.

Wendy P.

And yet there has been no looting and very little violence by the side that lost.  I like you Wendy but don't paint with such a broad brush.  You always get some on you.

[Phil1111 1,149]

10 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

...Now all of a sudden all these states-rights folks, who scream bloody murder if you mess with some state's right to have whatever law about abortion or gun control, are screaming bloody murder for the federal government to effectively take over (i.e. validate and/or recount) elections. Because they trust that a Trump Administration-selected group will come to the "right" answer, because, after all, it's inconceivable that their little bubble-generated certainty that Trump would be re-elected in a landslide is actually wrong.

Wendy P.

Wendy nails it.

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

Do you need elementary school kids to explain things for you?

I figured they'd be able to put it in terms you could follow. Seriously - if you're standing there saying you don't know the difference between remembering people and celebrating them then you're operating on a childlike level. If you're saying we're in danger of forgetting any historical figures we haven't commemorated with triumphalist statues then you're operating on a childlike level.

The argument you are pushing is absurd, asinine bullshit.

[Phil1111 1,149]

18 minutes ago, airdvr said:

And yet there has been no looting and very little violence by the side that lost.  I like you Wendy but don't paint with such a broad brush.  You always get some on you.

"No looting and little violence" in the overall equation of licensing polluters over four years.

"research from Harvard Law School, Columbia Law School and other sources, counts more than 80 environmental rules and regulations officially reversed, revoked or otherwise rolled back under Mr. Trump. Another 20 rollbacks are still in progress."

Kidnapping children from their parents as a national immigration policy.

"Lawyers working to reunite migrant families separated by the Trump administration before and during its "zero tolerance" policy at the border now believe the number of separated children for whom they have not been able to find parents is 666, higher than they told a federal judge last month, according to an email obtained by NBC News.

Nearly 20 percent, or 129, of those children were under 5 at the time of the separation, according to a source familiar with the data."  Trump's separation of families constitutes torture, doctors find

IMO kidnappers of children should be shot on sight. The burning and looting of a small American town would not compare to the kidnapping of over 100 children.

Anything else?

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Phil1111

[jakee 1,489]

52 minutes ago, airdvr said:

 To decide not to broadcast it is not their job.

Yes it is. Deciding what to broadcast is very literally the job of people working in TV news.

[wmw999 2,444]

24 minutes ago, airdvr said:

And yet there has been no looting and very little violence by the side that lost.  I like you Wendy but don't paint with such a broad brush.  You always get some on you.

Very little, just as there was very little looting or violence after the last election. The Women's Marches were quite peaceful. It's different from the BLM protests, which really started up again due to actual incidents.

As far as the bubble, I'm not including you in that, but I have a large number of Texas acquaintances who were forecasting a huge Trump landslide, because absolutely everyone loves everything he does except for a few malcontents (slightly paraphrased, but there really was quite a lot of confidence that Trump would overwhelmingly win). Combined with them now saying "Trump is siccing Barr on the Democrats," and it's pretty ugly.

They no more exemplify all Trump voters than the BLM protesters exemplify Biden voters, but they all exist.

Wendy P.

[RonD1120 62]

Most of the states w/vote counting issues all use Dominion Voting Systems.

They have an interesting history.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/11/09/4-things-to-know-about-voting-machine-company-thats-causing-stir/

[JoeWeber 2,720]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

Given the choices I wouldn't change.

It's not about whether I believe there was fraud.  The system needs to be designed in such a way as to insure the mere hint of impropriety is avoided.

It's very simple.  Back in the day if you wanted an absentee ballot you had to have a good reason.  I understand with Covid the need for mail-in ballots was huge.  Even so, a really simple change could be made to say if you want the convenience of a mail-in ballot it needs to be postmarked X number of days prior to the election.  Let's say 7 days.  This way all of the mail-in ballots are received, can be inspected, and the numbers verified and tabulated prior to the day of election.  Folks deployed overseas could also handle the date requirement.

So are you arguing for a national standard? Regardless, the states did great this election. No fraud or wrongdoing that could be described as more than minor has yet been discovered. Even the international observers here found nothing. And yet your candidate is hell bent on making the next presidents transition a disaster. And it all was not just predictable, it was in fact predicted. You voted for that and frankly I find that to be sad.

[gowlerk 2,190]

4 minutes ago, RonD1120 said:

Most of the states w/vote counting issues all use Dominion Voting Systems.

They have an interesting history.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/11/09/4-things-to-know-about-voting-machine-company-thats-causing-stir/

There are no states with counting issues. They are all doing fine. GA is having a recount because it is a close race. There have been no counting issues anywhere.

[airdvr 210]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

"No looting and little violence" in the overall equation of licensing polluters over four years.

"research from Harvard Law School, Columbia Law School and other sources, counts more than 80 environmental rules and regulations officially reversed, revoked or otherwise rolled back under Mr. Trump. Another 20 rollbacks are still in progress."

Kidnapping children from their parents as a national immigration policy.

"Lawyers working to reunite migrant families separated by the Trump administration before and during its "zero tolerance" policy at the border now believe the number of separated children for whom they have not been able to find parents is 666, higher than they told a federal judge last month, according to an email obtained by NBC News.

Nearly 20 percent, or 129, of those children were under 5 at the time of the separation, according to a source familiar with the data."  Trump's separation of families constitutes torture, doctors find

IMO kidnappers of children should be shot on sight. The burning and looting of a small American town would not compare to the kidnapping of over 100 children.

Anything else?

 

Not so fast there ....

From the DHS...

 In the current litigation, for example, out of the parents of 485 children whom Plaintiffs’ counsel has been able to contact, they've yet to identify a single family that wants their child reunited with them in their country of origin.”

Asked about the report, White House spokesperson Brian Morgenstern said, that many of the parents “have declined to accept their children back...It's not for lack of effort on the administration’s part."

 

[Phil1111 1,149]

8 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Not so fast there ....

From the DHS...

 In the current litigation, for example, out of the parents of 485 children whom Plaintiffs’ counsel has been able to contact, they've yet to identify a single family that wants their child reunited with them in their country of origin.”

Asked about the report, White House spokesperson Brian Morgenstern said, that many of the parents “have declined to accept their children back...It's not for lack of effort on the administration’s part."

 

Why do you keep using WH sources for your information? Sources of information that pander to trump and his appointees? i have also heard those same reports and they don't pass the smell test. What would those parents gain? What could those children gain?

You're a smart guy just step aside a bit from sources of info that are not directly related to trump.

[Phil1111 1,149]

2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

As usual Republicans are talking out of both sides of their mouths. Mainly because they stand for nothing. They have no backbone. 

This story is perfect for you. It explains in a very logical fashion how the GOP went down the rabbit hole.

What Motivates the Republican Party? The GOP seems wildly hypocritical and unprincipled, until you understand its guiding idea. from Washington Monthly August 2020

"Over the last several decades, the Republican Party has been conquered by the Christian right and the overwhelmingly white Tea Party movement. The former has a theocratic vision for America. The latter militantly opposes economic redistribution. These movements converged with a realization that demographic trends were unfriendly to their party’s older base, generating a white identity politics that found its natural expression in the intensely divisive and intermittently racist stylings of Trump.

Consider, for example, Trump’s promise to “Make America Great Again.” It is effectively a pledge to return to the days when white men walked tall in America, Christianity was a quasi-official creed, and foreign influences were on the margins of national life—precisely the world that most Republicans yearn for. Trump’s steady appointment of conservative judges gives evangelicals, many of whom believe that abortion is literal murder, exactly what they want. His heavy (if erratic) investment in restrictionist immigration policies has always been central to his appeal, and the sudden lurch of the GOP in that direction after George W. Bush and John McCain championed a more diverse future was far from being just another area of Republican electoral opportunism. 

Indeed, some of what Benen sees as simple cynicism is arguably ideological as well. Consider, for example, the party’s embrace of devious voter suppression and gerrymandering. Benen treats these as a by-product of Republican opportunism. But for a party existentially committed to restoring (or preserving) white, Christian supremacy in the face of increasing diversity, they are a direct means of delivering that dominance. Similarly, the determination of Republicans to resist any hint of gun regulation, despite public opinion (which The Imposters documents thoroughly), isn’t just a matter of gun lobby campaign contributions. Instead, it comes from a genuine belief among grassroots conservatives that armed struggle against what Trump calls “radical Democrat elites” must remain an option if conventional politics fails."

Ron, what do you think about this article?