Religious Authoritarianism Has America nailed to its Cross

[SkyDekker 1,465]

22 minutes ago, jakee said:

But we're not assuming. Bigun said the writer was responsible for the reader's interpretation. The scholar of the writings is not the writer.

Yes, and in general that is true. Your counter that because the authors of the bible are dead his argument can't be true is absurd.

The writer is responsible for clarity of message and the ability to have it readily understood. Not sure there is much discussion around that.

[jakee 1,489]

43 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Yes, and in general that is true. Your counter that because the authors of the bible are dead his argument can't be true is absurd.

His current argument can't be true if his initial argument was true. He took a hard line stance, and clarified several times that it was precisely what he meant, that all responsibility for interpretation falls on the writer. Yet now he's saying that readers need to ask other readers what they think the writer may have meant in order to find out what the writer meant? The idea that these two arguments fit with each other is absurd.

 

Personally I think both he and Joe were wrong. There is obviously scope for error from both reader and writer and in any situation it is entirely possible that either or both of them are responsible for any mistakes. Fault can only be determined on a case by case basis. But Bigun doesn't think that, he thinks it's always the writer's fault.

Quote

The writer is responsible for clarity of message and the ability to have it readily understood. Not sure there is much discussion around that.

There is no discussion around that, and indeed we are not having that discussion.

Edited January 27, 2021 by jakee

[JoeWeber 2,720]

18 minutes ago, jakee said:

Personally I think both he and Joe were wrong. There is obviously scope for error from both reader and writer and in any situation it is entirely possible that either or both of them are responsible for any mistakes. Fault can only be determined on a case by case basis. But Bigun doesn't think that, he thinks it's always the writer's fault.

If I'm your Joe I accept that I may be wrong. I do not accept the notion that any party involved is at fault. All parties are certainly making their best attempts or they would not be there to begin with. There can be no fault.

[Dr.SkyFall 28]

On 1/26/2021 at 12:26 PM, billvon said:

You made your point.  Post this again and you'll see a ban.

won't happen again sir

[Phil1111 1,149]

Excellent editorial in NYT today:

‘The Capitol Insurrection Was as Christian Nationalist as It Gets.’

Summarized best and could describe the current GOP party!

"describe Christian Nationalism in their book “Taking America Back for God”:

It includes assumptions of nativism, white supremacy, patriarchy and heteronormativity, along with divine sanction for authoritarian control and militarism. It is as ethnic and political as it is religious. Understood in this light, Christian nationalism contends that America has been and should always be distinctively ‘Christian’ from top to bottom — in its self-identity, interpretations of its own history, sacred symbols, cherished values and public policies — and it aims to keep it this way.

In her recent book, “The Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism,” Katherine Stewart, a frequent contributor to these pages, does not mince words:

It is a political movement, and its ultimate goal is power. It does not seek to add another voice to America’s pluralistic democracy, but to replace our foundational democratic principles and institutions with a state grounded on a particular version of Christianity, answering to what some adherents call a ‘biblical worldview’ that also happens to serve the interests of its plutocratic funders and allied political leaders."

What are your thoughts Ron?  Seen any FBI agents hiding in the woodline lately?

[BIGUN 1,307]

14 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

I do not accept the notion that any party involved is at fault. All parties are certainly making their best attempts or they would not be there to begin with. There can be no fault.

Exactly. I said it's the responsibility of the writer.... I'd give you a "like," but I just did that the other day and with your being a liberal and all...     

[JoeWeber 2,720]

1 minute ago, BIGUN said:

Exactly. I said it's the responsibility of the writer.... I'd give you a "like," but I just did that the other day and with your being a liberal and all...     

If it helps at all my liberal friends generally see me as a gun loving right wing hard ass.

[kallend 2,026]

14 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

If it helps at all my liberal friends generally see me as a gun loving right wing hard ass.

You have friends?

[Phil1111 1,149]

18 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

If it helps at all my liberal friends generally see me as a gun loving right wing hard ass.

 

4 minutes ago, kallend said:

You have friends?

Ssssssh...free jumps and free beer after hours at the DZ! Whad ya think.

[jaybird18c 24]

Just checking in to see if anything new and interesting has been discussed in the liberal echo chamber, which is dropzone.com.  Of course, the answer is no. As you were.

[jakee 1,489]

16 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

If I'm your Joe I accept that I may be wrong. I do not accept the notion that any party involved is at fault. All parties are certainly making their best attempts or they would not be there to begin with. There can be no fault.

?? That’s just quibbling the semantics of the word fault. People can make mistakes they didn’t mean to make but it’s still their fault. If it makes you happier replace fault with responsibility or whatever.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

46 minutes ago, jakee said:

?? That’s just quibbling the semantics of the word fault. People can make mistakes they didn’t mean to make but it’s still their fault. If it makes you happier replace fault with responsibility or whatever.

I'll try to do better. I wouldn't want the reader to misunderstand on my account.

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

I'll try to do better. I wouldn't want the reader to misunderstand on my account.

I'll be honest - at this point I genuinely don't know what you're talking about.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

33 minutes ago, jakee said:

I'll be honest - at this point I genuinely don't know what you're talking about.

Thank you.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

5 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

 

Ssssssh...free jumps and free beer after hours at the DZ! Whad ya think.

No way, I only do that because they love me. I'm sure of it.

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

5 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

If it helps at all my liberal friends generally see me as a gun loving right wing hard ass.

Hi Joe,

I have never seen you as gun loving or as being right wing.

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 1,149]

Ravi Zacharias a influential evangelical leader has been exposed.

"Ravi Zacharias Hid Hundreds of Pictures of Women, Abuse During Massages, and a Rape Allegation ...His ministry, preparing to downsize in the wake of a new investigation, expresses regret for “misplaced trust” in a leader who used his esteem to conceal his sexual misconduct."

"four-month investigation found the late Ravi Zacharias leveraged his reputation as a world-famous Christian apologist to abuse massage therapists in the United States and abroad over more than a decade while the ministry led by his family members and loyal allies failed to hold him accountable. ...evidence of sexual abuse in Thailand, India, and Malaysia....

Zacharias used tens of thousands of dollars of ministry funds dedicated to a “humanitarian effort” to pay for sex

One woman told the investigators that “after he arranged for the ministry to provide her with financial support, he required sex from her.” She called it rape"

Edited February 12, 2021 by Phil1111

[ryoder 1,590]

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Ravi Zacharias a influential evangelical leader has been exposed.

"Ravi Zacharias Hid Hundreds of Pictures of Women, Abuse During Massages, and a Rape Allegation ...His ministry, preparing to downsize in the wake of a new investigation, expresses regret for “misplaced trust” in a leader who used his esteem to conceal his sexual misconduct."

"four-month investigation found the late Ravi Zacharias leveraged his reputation as a world-famous Christian apologist to abuse massage therapists in the United States and abroad over more than a decade while the ministry led by his family members and loyal allies failed to hold him accountable. ...evidence of sexual abuse in Thailand, India, and Malaysia....

Zacharias used tens of thousands of dollars of ministry funds dedicated to a “humanitarian effort” to pay four sex

One woman told the investigators that “after he arranged for the ministry to provide her with financial support, he required sex from her.” She called it rape"

And Pence eulogized him at his funeral: