Illinois Demands Soviet-Style "Groupthink" in State Classrooms

[Guest]

https://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/index/register/volume44/register_volume44_issue_37.pdf

[kallend 2,026]

A remarkable flurry of trolling threads started recently.

 

Someone seems to be suffering a severe case of sore loser syndrome.

[gowlerk 2,190]

58 minutes ago, kallend said:

A remarkable flurry of trolling threads started recently.

 

Someone seems to be suffering a severe case of sore loser syndrome.

And once again it starts a lie.

[wmw999 2,444]

Mark, this is too big a document for everyone to go poring through it to see exactly what you find objectionable. Indicate it, discuss it. The document has over 400 pages.

Wendy P.

[Guest]

The rule published in the Illinois Register on Sept. 11, titled “Culturally Responsive Teaching and Leading Standards for all Illinois Educators,” requires that educators “embrace and encourage progressive viewpoints and perspectives that leverage asset thinking toward traditionally marginalized populations” (p. 14577-14584): "The culturally responsive teacher and leader will: Understand and value the notion that multiple lived experiences exist, that there is not one “correct” way of doing or understanding something, and that what is seen as “correct” is most often based on our lived experiences … Recognize how their identity (race/ethnicity, national emotional ability, socioeconomic class, religion, etc.) affects their perspectives and beliefs about pedagogy and students." in other words, groupthink, where only politically correct ideas are allowed.

"Ralph Rivera and Molly Malone Rumley from the group Pro-Family Alliance responded to the Board’s proposal in a letter, asserting, 'These elements of the proposed rule require teachers to enunciate a government-sourced ‘progressive’ and activist viewpoint in their educational work with students. As a consequence, certain narratives will be required, and counter-narratives excluded and proscribed. This is a form of compelled speech and viewpoint discrimination which is likely to be found unconstitutional.'” Source: The College Fix

[wmw999 2,444]

Progressive in this sense is not trying to teach politics, it's trying to teach respect for other people. It's an unfortunate choice of word in a polarized society. Had that paragraph been worded:

"educators embrace and encourage respectful viewpoints and perspectives that recognize the potential for other populations to be viewed as assets" would you have objected?

"the responsive teacher and leader will: Understand and value the notion that different people have different life experiences, that there is not one correct way of doing or understanding many things, and that what is seen as correct is most often based on our lived experiences"

That's how I read these. They're poorly worded, but so is your interpretation that it required groupthink -- it's proposing exactly the opposite, the respect for others' rights to their point of view.

Wendy P.

[jakee 1,489]

13 minutes ago, markharju said:

"The culturally responsive teacher and leader will: Understand and value the notion that multiple lived experiences exist, that there is not one “correct” way of doing or understanding something, and that what is seen as “correct” is most often based on our lived experiences … Recognize how their identity (race/ethnicity, national emotional ability, socioeconomic class, religion, etc.) affects their perspectives and beliefs about pedagogy and students." in other words, groupthink, where only politically correct ideas are allowed.

Woooow. So you think that encouraging people to understand that there are multiple viewpoints on any issue means only allowing politically correct viewpoints to be recognised?

Damn, when your teachers indoctrinated you they did a fucking brilliant job.

[billvon 2,990]

11 minutes ago, markharju said:

The rule published in the Illinois Register on Sept. 11, titled “Culturally Responsive Teaching and Leading Standards for all Illinois Educators,” requires that educators “embrace and encourage progressive viewpoints and perspectives that leverage asset thinking toward traditionally marginalized populations” (p. 14577-14584): "The culturally responsive teacher and leader will: Understand and value the notion that multiple lived experiences exist, that there is not one “correct” way of doing or understanding something, and that what is seen as “correct” is most often based on our lived experiences … Recognize how their identity (race/ethnicity, national emotional ability, socioeconomic class, religion, etc.) affects their perspectives and beliefs about pedagogy and students."

This could have been lifted from a 1960s era US curriculum that worked towards integrating blacks into traditionally white schools.  Different language of course but exactly the same intent - get teachers to understand that progress meant getting black kids into schools and accepted by the white classrooms, and to understand that they came from largely different backgrounds than white students.

And of course, back then white nationalists wrote angry letters with strongly worded objections to the plan, because it required teachers to go with a government-required "pro black agenda" - thus requiring them to become radical political activists within their schools.  Why expose children to those extreme radical and anti-white-society ideas?  Will they be forbidden to teach white history, white values and white morality, and instead replace it with the "anything-goes" black morality?  It will destroy our country.  It will lead to blacks marrying whites.

Same argument, different day.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

This could have been lifted from a 1960s era US curriculum that worked towards integrating blacks into traditionally white schools.  Different language of course but exactly the same intent - get teachers to understand that progress meant getting black kids into schools and accepted by the white classrooms, and to understand that they came from largely different backgrounds than white students.

And of course, back then white nationalists wrote angry letters with strongly worded objections to the plan, because it required teachers to go with a government-required "pro black agenda" - thus requiring them to become radical political activists within their schools.  Why expose children to those extreme radical and anti-white-society ideas?  Will they be forbidden to teach white history, white values and white morality, and instead replace it with the "anything-goes" black morality?  It will destroy our country.  It will lead to blacks marrying whites.

Same argument, different day.

"...that there is not one “correct” way of doing or understanding something, and that what is seen as “correct” is most often based on our lived experiences.."

When 2+2=4 is "RACIST!!!" - the results already speak for themselves.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Guest

[billvon 2,990]

7 minutes ago, markharju said:

"what is seen as “correct” is most often based on our lived experiences.."

That is absolutely true.  Is it right to save the whales?  If your country's biggest problem is obesity - absolutely.  If your country's biggest problem is that you are in an ice-bound landscape and a thousand people are going to starve that winter - perhaps not.

Quote

When 2+2=4 is "RACIST!!!" - the results already speak for themselves.

2+2=4.  People who think blacks are an underclass are racist.  Two separate concepts.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, billvon said:

That is absolutely true.  Is it right to save the whales?  If your country's biggest problem is obesity - absolutely.  If your country's biggest problem is that you are in an ice-bound landscape and a thousand people are going to starve that winter - perhaps not.

2+2=4.  People who think blacks are an underclass are racist.  Two separate concepts.

Let me refresh your memory - https://dailycaller.com/2019/10/21/seattle-schools-math-is-racist/

And here is some more: https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/yes-all-white-people-are-racist-eefa97cc5605

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Guest

[wmw999 2,444]

And how is that representative of education in general? Is it any more representative than teachers who teach "creation science" because they don't believe in evolution? Is it any more representative than states who dictate that slavery shouldn't be mentioned in context with the Civil War (i.e. "the war of northern aggression.")

No one has a lock on dumb. And word problems can, in fact, be harder for kids when they refer to things outside of their knowledge -- just as they're hard for non-native speakers sometimes, and kids with language difficulties in general.

Wendy P.

[billvon 2,990]

4 hours ago, markharju said:

Let me refresh your memory - https://dailycaller.com/2019/10/21/seattle-schools-math-is-racist/

And here is some more: https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/yes-all-white-people-are-racist-eefa97cc5605

What, exactly, is your problem with the first?  If someone pointed out that our number system is based on Arabic numerals, would you have a conniption, because you don't like Muslims?  Would you want that information suppressed?   If you pointed out that black students systematically do worse at math, would that make you a racist?  Or do you want that information suppressed by the government, too?

The second one is a silly opinion piece.  I put as much stock in that as I put in Trump's opinions on race in the US.

[Guest]

On 11/21/2020 at 2:32 AM, billvon said:

The second one is a silly opinion piece.  I put as much stock in that as I put in Trump's opinions on race in the US.

https://www.sandiegonewsdesk.com/2020/12/san-diego-unified-school-district-implements-racist-white-privilege-training/

White people are now subject to blatant racist attacks in your home town. This has been coming for a long time:

After watching clips of Robin DiAngelo and Ibram Kendi, the trainers tell the teachers: “you are racist,” “you are upholding racist ideas, structures, and policies,” and that they must commit to becoming “antiracist” in the classroom. They must submit to the new racial orthodoxy. pic.twitter.com/EEFNc0H1em

 

As for Trump's opinions on race, did you read the Executive Order prohibiting race-based "scapegoating"?  It's an interesting read, and I highly recommend it.

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, markharju said:

https://www.sandiegonewsdesk.com/2020/12/san-diego-unified-school-district-implements-racist-white-privilege-training/

White people are now subject to blatant racist attacks in your home town. This has been coming for a long time:

I can't tell you how funny it is that the second section of the training they talk about in that article describes exactly what you are doing right now. Sounds like a pretty good course!

[billvon 2,990]

3 hours ago, markharju said:

White people are now subject to blatant racist attacks in your home town. This has been coming for a long time:

You mean white people might experience (gasp!) RACISM?  O the horror!  Why should whites have to experience the same sort of thing that black people experience?   That's for blacks, not whites.

Sounds like you need to take a course like the one described in the article.  It might open your eyes.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, billvon said:

You mean white people might experience (gasp!) RACISM?  O the horror!  Why should whites have to experience the same sort of thing that black people experience?   That's for blacks, not whites.

Sounds like you need to take a course like the one described in the article.  It might open your eyes.

Scapegoating white people is RACISM. I hope you're just being rhetorical. Your "silly opinion piece" is now being forced down the throats of people who've done nothing but have the wrong skin color. RACISM IS RACISM, and it's also a code word for WHITE GENOCIDE.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Guest

[jakee 1,489]

38 minutes ago, markharju said:

Scapegoating white people is RACISM. I hope you're just being rhetorical. Your "silly opinion piece" is now being forced down the throats of people who've done nothing but have the wrong skin color. RACISM IS RACISM, and it's also a code word for WHITE GENOCIDE.

Stop being a giant baby.

[billvon 2,990]

1 hour ago, markharju said:

Scapegoating white people is RACISM.

The only actual quote from the school district's material is:

Since white people hold most of the political, institutional, and economic power, they receive advantages that nonwhite groups do not. White culture and white racialized identity refer to the way that white people, their customs, culture and beliefs operate as the standard by which all other groups are compared.”

That's not scapegoating.  That's fact.

Quote

 Your "silly opinion piece" is now being forced down the throats of people who've done nothing but have the wrong skin color. 

Oh boo fucking hoo.  If you think that reality is being "forced down your throat" then go find a safe space where you can live out any racial fantasies you want, without worrying about the real world intruding on them.  Here in the real world, white people have had - and continue to have - an advantage over black people.

Quote

 and it's also a code word for WHITE GENOCIDE.

Right.  Recognizing the difference in privilege between races is just like GENOCIDE.  And just like Hitler too.

[gowlerk 2,190]

34 minutes ago, billvon said:

Right.  Recognizing the difference in privilege between races is just like GENOCIDE. 

I love me some good old white privilege. It's great when I pull up to the booth at the border. Both directions actually. Especially if I keep my hair short and look a little military. They are downright friendly because there are a lot of "new Canadians" in truck driving who get a lot more attention. And nearly all CBP officers are ex-military.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

20 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I love me some good old white privilege...

Something I saw a month or so ago:

If there's ever been a Supreme Court ruling that ensures other people have the same rights you take for granted, you have privilege.

And, of course, forcing people to recognize that is "GENOCIDE!!!!!"
 

 

22 hours ago, markharju said:

... Your "silly opinion piece" is now being forced down the throats of people who've done nothing but have the wrong skin color...

Funny how horrible it is to force an opinion piece down people's throats, yet forcing them to live in poor neighborhoods, go to bad schools, submit to excesses of law enforcement and on and on and on just because they 'have the wrong skin color' is just business as usual.

Edited December 6, 2020 by wolfriverjoe

[wmw999 2,444]

4 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

If there's ever been a Supreme Court ruling that ensures other people have the same rights you take for granted, you have privilege.

Now that’s a keeper!

Wendy P. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Yup. 

It sums it up rather nicely, doesn't it.

Not mine, feel free to steal, share, whatever.

[mbohu 77]

On 11/20/2020 at 8:25 AM, markharju said:

that there is not one “correct” way of doing or understanding something

 

On 11/20/2020 at 8:35 AM, wmw999 said:

that there is not one correct way of doing or understanding many things

Well, I mean, I hate to say it, but the quote from the document (if correctly quoted) is a little bit problematic AND I think Wendy actually recognized this, which is why she changed it (to "many things"--indicating that it does not apply to everything, which the original quote somewhat seems to suggest)

I do think there are some things that--if not having one single correct way--have certainly vastly MORE correct ways of doing things than other ways. Otherwise we are definitely back to teaching Noah's Ark side by side with evolution and consider them both as simply two different, but equally valid, ways of doing (or thinking about) things.

This really cuts both political ways, as it enables the "post-truth" way of news reporting and political discourse (which is really more of a "pre-truth" way, in most cases) that has been so endemic on the right (but has its mirror in the extreme post-modern and "critical theory" thinking of the left)

 

Just sayin...

Edited December 7, 2020 by mbohu

[Guest]

On 12/5/2020 at 11:48 PM, billvon said:

The only actual quote from the school district's material is:

Since white people hold most of the political, institutional, and economic power, they receive advantages that nonwhite groups do not. White culture and white racialized identity refer to the way that white people, their customs, culture and beliefs operate as the standard by which all other groups are compared.”

That's not scapegoating.  That's fact.

Oh boo fucking hoo.  If you think that reality is being "forced down your throat" then go find a safe space where you can live out any racial fantasies you want, without worrying about the real world intruding on them.  Here in the real world, white people have had - and continue to have - an advantage over black people.

Right.  Recognizing the difference in privilege between races is just like GENOCIDE.  And just like Hitler too.

So you're okay with discrimination as long as you agree with whom it is directed at. Thanks for the clarity. See also https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/godwins-law/

Edited December 7, 2020 by Guest