Buffalo, NY Business: "Go Get A Warrant"

[Guest]

Resistance has begun. "I aim to misbehave."

https://www.radio.com/wben/news/local/angry-business-owners-resist-covid-enforcement

[wmw999 2,444]

Interesting how the rules only should be obeyed if you agree. Kind of like the rules against protesting, the (even less codified) rules about standing for the National Anthem, etc.

Wendy P.

[Guest]

Wendy, the trouble is that these (COVID-19 restrictions) aren't "rules"...they're more like royal decrees. And there aren't rules against protesting that I've seen. What I have seen is that mobs burning cities are praised, whereas others are arrested for going to church. Edit to add: When people can observe how unevenly and unfairly the "rules" are applied, they're naturally going to get uppity. This week a public official in Virginia bragged about shutting down a gun show by calling it a "super-spreader" event, event though the organizers complied with all state laws regarding COVID-19 precautions, which means that it was politically motivated. People can only take so much. "I aim to misbehave."

Edited November 22, 2020 by Guest

[wmw999 2,444]

Yet here the police definitely didn't enforce our local mask ordinance when there was a Trump rally with no masks right downtown (where the mask ordinance was for), because "we've been advising rather than fining in the past, it would be inconsistent to do so for one group."

It's the right answer. When you're talking about laws and rules, don't look for the ones that apply so you can enforce them against the target, apply the rules no matter the target.

Wendy P.

[Guest]

Agreed. My biggest beef with it all is the inconsistency and the constant change. Even here in Germany it's always shifting and one can never know when when is going to be jacked up, fined or whatever (I'll admit though that it's unlikely - the Polizei can't be everywhere, thank goodness, so they tend to be a presence in areas with lots of traffic such as train stations, because those are where the real risk is. One can get on a train and be in another country in no time). The COVID restrictions are perceived as arbitrary, and that's why there are huge protests here. No one can call the Germans pro-Trump rednecks or whatever  heterosexual white Christians are being demonized as this week...

Edited November 22, 2020 by Guest

[JoeWeber 2,720]

52 minutes ago, markharju said:

Agreed. My biggest beef with it all is the inconsistency and the constant change. Even here in Germany it's always shifting and one can never know when when is going to be jacked up, fined or whatever (I'll admit though that it's unlikely - the Polizei can't be everywhere, thank goodness, so they tend to be a presence in areas with lots of traffic such as train stations, because those are where the real risk is. One can get on a train and be in another country in no time). The COVID restrictions are perceived as arbitrary, and that's why there are huge protests here. No one can call the Germans pro-Trump rednecks or whatever  heterosexual white Christians are being demonized as this week...

So around the world, not just in America, the pandemic is spiraling out of control because people just can not be trusted to do the right thing. "Rules" aren't as real as laws and that's the problem. Thanks for the update. Also, a shout out: we liberals here in your former country are most appreciative that every other nation on the planet is playing along with our crazy conspiracy to oust Trump. Thank you all, even non Christian heterosexual white folk.

[billvon 2,990]

2 hours ago, markharju said:

Wendy, the trouble is that these (COVID-19 restrictions) aren't "rules"...they're more like royal decrees.

"Royal decrees" are just rules you don't like.

Quote

mobs burning cities are praised, whereas others are arrested for going to church.

Nope. More fake news.

Quote

When people can observe how unevenly and unfairly the "rules" are applied, they're naturally going to get uppity. . . My biggest beef with it all is the inconsistency and the constant change. 

That's because we are learning all the time.  Note the term for this virus includes the word "novel."  It's new.  At first we didn't even think that masking would work.  Now we know it does.  So the rules changed.

[wmw999 2,444]

Well, while it is everyone's right to resist the laws of the state (in the US at least, although there are penalties in man cases), the laws of health and physics are generally not quite as forgiving of good intentions. The swooper may not believe that he needs to learn (just as everyone else does), and the non-masked person who turns out to have COVID can still infect people, some of whom can die.

Few consequences affect only the direct person -- that swooper who biffs has to be rescued, rehabbed, and insured. The people who the COVID carrier infects can get sicker than he (or she) did and/or die.

Wendy P.

[jakee 1,489]

2 hours ago, markharju said:

Edit to add: When people can observe how unevenly and unfairly the "rules" are applied, they're naturally going to get uppity.

So you are a black lives matter supporter, and you did get behind the demonstration and prtests after Floyd's death?

[gowlerk 2,190]

6 hours ago, markharju said:

Resistance has begun. "I aim to misbehave."

https://www.radio.com/wben/news/local/angry-business-owners-resist-covid-enforcement

It's a proud day in history when a few people with agendas rise up and demand their "right to infect" be protected. It is a time of sacrifice and it is true that some people are being forced to sacrifice more than others. Time for the lame duck POTUS and the senate to cut a deal with the evil house majority leader to get them some relief.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

"Royal decrees" are just rules you don't like.

Nope. More fake news.

That's because we are learning all the time.  Note the term for this virus includes the word "novel."  It's new.  At first we didn't even think that masking would work.  Now we know it does.  So the rules changed.

My only hope is that this bug (BTW I was a huge fan of Michael Crichton's "The Andromeda Strain" long before it ever became trendy [in fact I own a hardbound first edition]) can be studied and understood, and the results immediately shared with citizens. Further, I would  like to see greater cooperation between citizens and scientists to combat this scourge. Screw the politicians.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

 

Few consequences affect only the direct person -- that swooper who biffs has to be rescued, rehabbed, and insured. The people who the COVID carrier infects can get sicker than he (or she) did and/or die.

Wendy P.

Wendy,

Thanks for putting your remarks into the proper context. It's easy these days to get lost in the weeds. We're here because of skydiving. Personal side note: I REALLY want this BS to end so I can go to that horizontal wind tunnel in Sweden and work on wingsuit technique :-)

[jakee 1,489]

15 minutes ago, markharju said:

My only hope is that this bug (BTW I was a huge fan of Michael Crichton's "The Andromeda Strain" long before it ever became trendy [in fact I own a hardbound first edition]) can be studied and understood, and the results immediately shared with citizens. 

?? 

It is being studied, it is being increasingly understood and the results are public.

Quote

Further, I would  like to see greater cooperation between citizens and scientists to combat this scourge.

So you disapprove of the resistance you mention in your first post?

[olofscience 480]

7 minutes ago, markharju said:

Wendy,

Thanks for putting your remarks into the proper context. It's easy these days to get lost in the weeds. We're here because of skydiving. Personal side note: I REALLY want this BS to end so I can go to that horizontal wind tunnel in Sweden and work on wingsuit technique :-)

Ha, maybe you'll see me there.

I really want this to end too - but on the topic of your post, all the anti-maskers, the anti-lockdown people are just prolonging our pain.

But if it were not for the failure of the politicians, we wouldn't even need to lock down at all - look at New Zealand (back to normal) and Taiwan (having music concerts, packed stadiums, not a mask in sight - because they got rid of covid). Accusing the people of liking lockdowns is a complete strawman - NOBODY wants this. I hate the restrictions, but not killing people is more important to me.

The vaccines are arriving - we just need to hold out a little bit longer. And they can't arrive soon enough - looks like Germany is about to run out of ICU beds.

[billvon 2,990]

2 hours ago, markharju said:

My only hope is that this bug (BTW I was a huge fan of Michael Crichton's "The Andromeda Strain" long before it ever became trendy [in fact I own a hardbound first edition]) can be studied and understood, and the results immediately shared with citizens.

They have been.  Unfortunately that means people often have huge beefs with all the inconsistency and the constant change, and they complain about how guidance is always shifting and one can never know when one is going to be jacked up, fined or whatever.  Because scientists are sharing results with citizens immediately, risks and best practices can change quickly, and that means that many people perceive new or changing restrictions as arbitrary.  The change from no masks to masks is one example. 

I bet you even know someone like that.

Quote

Further, I would  like to see greater cooperation between citizens and scientists to combat this scourge. Screw the politicians.

Agreed there.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

3 hours ago, markharju said:

Further, I would  like to see greater cooperation between citizens and scientists to combat this scourge.

What the holy hell are you talking about? Half of our citizens here in America don't believe in science. They believe zygotes are people, vaccines cause democrats, the Earth is flat and Elvis is alive and Jesus is minutes away from taking the righteous and leaving the rest of us to an eternity of perdition eating Chick-fil-A at every meal. You might rethink that.

[kallend 2,026]

4 hours ago, markharju said:

 Further, I would  like to see greater cooperation between citizens and scientists to combat this scourge. Screw the politicians.

It's a pity that so many politicians on the right have devoted so much effort to portraying science and scientists in a bad light, that their "base" is unlikely to cooperate in the way that you would like.

You reap what you sow.  Just ask Herman Cain.

[lippy 918]

24 minutes ago, kallend said:

You reap what you sow.  Just ask Herman Cain.

I'm trying, but he won't return my calls for some reason.

[ryoder 1,590]

32 minutes ago, lippy said:

I'm trying, but he won't return my calls for some reason.

Do you have the right number? I think it is 999-999-9999.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

5 hours ago, markharju said:

My only hope is that this bug (BTW I was a huge fan of Michael Crichton's "The Andromeda Strain" long before it ever became trendy [in fact I own a hardbound first edition]) can be studied and understood, and the results immediately shared with citizens. Further, I would  like to see greater cooperation between citizens and scientists to combat this scourge. Screw the politicians.

They are. The 24 hour news cycle has the latest discoveries out the minute they're released.
Of course, because of the way science works, they often contradict or correct previous reports.
So the morons will claim "They don't know what they're talking about". 

If you want to see the world 'combat this scourge', then the 'citizens' need to follow what the scientists are saying (and to a large degree have said the whole time):

Wear a mask. 
Stay home.
Don't come into close contact with other people.

But because people are stupid, they don't do those things. 
They refuse to wear masks.
They go out to restaurants & bars.
And the virus spreads.

So the government has to step in and issue 'royal proclamations' to try to get the citizens to do what the scientists say.

And, of course, the morons refuse. 
So the virus keeps spreading.
A million new cases in the US in the last week. 

Of course, there are a few places where the government clamped down HARD at the very beginning. Shutting everything down. Telling people to stay home and enforcing it. Tracking down the people who were sick and those that got exposed. 
Kinda funny how those places aren't seeing huge spikes (or any cases at all in a couple places). 

[jimjumper 25]

Well California should be safe then. Now that we have a 10-5 curfew I'm sure the disease transmission will  stopped dead in its tracks! But I'm sure it's based on science and not arbitrary.

[wmw999 2,444]

So there are just the two options: complete stoppage, and “fuckit don’t do anything and let ‘er rip”

Wendy P. 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

22 hours ago, markharju said:

Further, I would  like to see greater cooperation between citizens and scientists to combat this scourge.

They tried that with climate change, but for years your party has been telling people that scientists cannot be trusted. Refusing to bend to science has been one of the driving forces in Trump's original election and ongoing support. Isn't it ironic....

[billvon 2,990]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

So there are just the two options: complete stoppage, and “fuckit don’t do anything and let ‘er rip”

Wendy P. 

Of course.  For every issue in the country - crime, foreign policy, energy - there are only two real options.  Anything other than extremes are boring, depressing and confusing.

[nwt 131]

4 hours ago, jimjumper said:

Well California should be safe then. Now that we have a 10-5 curfew I'm sure the disease transmission will  stopped dead in its tracks! But I'm sure it's based on science and not arbitrary.

Right... Science says the more people you interact with, the more likely you are to get the disease. A curfew reduces interaction. This is reeeeeeeally basic stuff we learned way, way before COVID.