Buffalo, NY Business: "Go Get A Warrant"

[jimjumper 25]

But our Govenor promised that his lockdown decisions would be based on "science". After his French Laundry party with the CEO of the CA Medical Assoc. which totally ignored "the science" and possibly exposing his family, I dare to say that his personal anecdotal experiences are the driving force behind a number of decisions. That is not following "the science". And there are a number of other CA politicians also on the hypocrisy bandwagon. If he's following "the science" I would assume that he has at least some study showing a higher transfer rate during the curfew period. And I would question how that happens without the large homeless population we have being shown as major spreaders. After all, they probably are one of the largest groups out and about during those curfew hours.

[wmw999 2,444]

No, his dinner party was goat-fuck stupid and utterly hypocritical. That said, the science (as evidenced by the very large number of practicing doctors and nurses supporting masks) indicates that wearing masks, especially the transmitter, but also the potential recipient of infected particles, reduces infection significantly. You can look at the infection profile of the vast majority of the states, sorted by the strictness of their anti-COVID measures. They correlate well. It's not perfect -- Rhode Island is having a big spike, and they're reasonably strict. But by and large they do.

That's what science is. Not a promise of one-to-one perfect anticipation, but evidence showing that following a particular path is more likely to lead to one or another outcome in a limited set of outcomes.

Wendy P.

[nwt 131]

12 minutes ago, jimjumper said:

I would assume that he has at least some study showing a higher transfer rate during the curfew period.

Why? If there is any transfer at all during the curfew period, then enacting the curfew will be beneficial.

[gowlerk 2,190]

32 minutes ago, jimjumper said:

But our Govenor promised that his lockdown decisions would be based on "science".

The science is actually quite simple. Your governor acting like a typical selfish human is not really relevant to it.  The less people have close contact the less the virus can spread. Covering your breathing openings will cause the viral particles to travel less distance. That is the science in a nutshell. The part where officials make decisions about the best way to limit contact is not really science at all. It is people making the best of the situation and employing both common sense and their own biases about what is important. And it is where many of us disagree with each other.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 hour ago, jimjumper said:

If he's following "the science" I would assume that he has at least some study showing a higher transfer rate during the curfew period.

In BC at least bars and restaurants have had to close earlier, and last call has been earlier because drinking has led to unsafe behaviour. Don't think we need a large scale study to see the logic in that.

At the same time house parties have been shown to do the same thing. A curfew would touch on both of those and a few more.

[gowlerk 2,190]

31 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

In BC at least bars and restaurants have had to close earlier, and last call has been earlier because drinking has led to unsafe behaviour. Don't think we need a large scale study to see the logic in that.

At the same time house parties have been shown to do the same thing. A curfew would touch on both of those and a few more.

Bars? BC still has bars open? Doing far better than us then. Going into a home you don't live in for a visit is now forbidden here.

Edited November 24, 2020 by gowlerk

[Westerly 61]

I get it, businesses need to make money. People are losing their houses due to economic damage. But at the end of the day, if your business is resulting in people dying, then the government is right to step in and stop that. Houses can be replaced, lives cannot. Also, everyone makes their career choice. When is the last time nurses and doctors werent in demand? How about IT professionals? Hint, hint.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Westerly

[SkyDekker 1,465]

39 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Going into a home you don't live in for a visit is now forbidden here.

Same here. But I can still go to a restaurant or bar with the people who live in my home.

[gowlerk 2,190]

7 minutes ago, Westerly said:

I get it, businesses need to make money. People are losing their houses due to economic damage.

The burden is not shared equally. I am barely affected financially at all. As a matter of fact I am better off because I am saving money. In the spring shutdown copious amounts of cash were spread around to ease the pain. Some of that was wasteful. But now there is real damage being done to many people and a better system has not been implemented. 

My feeling is that another thick spreading of cash should be done now. I know it can't go on forever, but the vaccine is nearly here and it will be a game changer. Real damage can happen if too many people get squeezed too hard.

[Westerly 61]

4 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The burden is not shared equally. I am barely affected financially at all. As a matter of fact I am better off because I am saving money. In the spring shutdown copious amounts of cash were spread around to ease the pain. Some of that was wasteful. But now there is real damage being done to many people and a better system has not been implemented. 

My feeling is that another thick spreading of cash should be done now. I know it can't go on forever, but the vaccine is nearly here and it will be a game changer. Real damage can happen if too many people get squeezed too hard.

 In the spring many people were making more money on unemployment than they did working full time. Why would anyone go to work when they get paid more not to? I think people should get normal unemployment benefits paid at the normal rate, but the duration should be extended longer since this is a long-term problem. That's exactly what happened in 2009. Normal rate, but unemployment lasted for a year instead of six months. As far as a single payment of $1200, that's nothing honestly. That doesent solve any problem past a week. They need to focus on something more long term.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Westerly

[gowlerk 2,190]

7 minutes ago, Westerly said:

I think people should get normal unemployment benefits paid at the normal rate,

I understand that rate is pretty low in many states. Canada had a different, but in many ways equally wasteful program. It is a difficult task to make emergency aid be fair. Sometimes you just have to throw money at the problem, at least for a while.

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

58 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I understand that rate is pretty low in many states. Canada had a different, but in many ways equally wasteful program. It is a difficult task to make emergency aid be fair. Sometimes you just have to throw money at the problem, at least for a while.

Hi Ken,

Re:  ' It is a difficult task to make emergency aid be fair.'

During a press conference, when asked a question I no longer remember, JFK replied, 'Life is not fair.'

I have always remembered those words.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[TriGirl 318]

On 11/23/2020 at 5:05 AM, markharju said:

Further, I would  like to see greater cooperation between citizens and scientists to combat this scourge.

Had a text conversation with my (adult, college-grad) nephew the other day.  He lives in a small town outside Buffalo.  He asked, "So, why can't everyone just wear a mask so we can keep everything open?"

Oh, the idealism of the young.  Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone took the science seriously, accepted some limitations for a while for the good of everyone else (not to mention,  had some basic education in hygiene and public health), and endeavored to do their part to kill this thing. I pointed out the (anecdotal) story of the high school that freaked out over girls baring their shoulders, but wouldn't enforce mask policies.  It's that kind of attitude in too high of a percentage of the population that forces governments to try something else to keep their residents from dying.

Haven't we seen cases of people with HIV being prosecuted under various statutes for having unprotected sex with a partner whom they have not told about their infection?  (or is that just on TV? -- I really do want to be corrected if wrong)  So why should people get a pass -- even if just in public opinion -- for blatant disregard for the health of others, insisting they be given their freedom. What about the freedom of the people you're infecting? 

[ryoder 1,590]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

Re:  ' It is a difficult task to make emergency aid be fair.'

During a press conference, when asked a question I no longer remember, JFK replied, 'Life is not fair.'

I have always remembered those words.

Jerry Baumchen

 

 

[Guest]

On 11/22/2020 at 5:45 PM, jakee said:

So you are a black lives matter supporter, and you did get behind the demonstration and prtests after Floyd's death?

Observation versus perception heavily influenced through bias and violent mob behavior of those who are little more than mindless savages are different things.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Guest

[Guest]

On 11/23/2020 at 1:52 AM, wolfriverjoe said:

They are. The 24 hour news cycle has the latest discoveries out the minute they're released.

If you want to see the world 'combat this scourge', then the 'citizens' need to follow what the scientists are saying (and to a large degree have said the whole time):

Wear a mask. 
Stay home. -- AND STARVE. OH WAIT: THE FOOD FAIRY WILL DEPOSIT GROCERIES ON THE DOORSTEP OF EVERYONE STAYING HOME.

Don't come into close contact with other people.

But because people are stupid, they don't do those things. 
They refuse to wear masks.
They go out to restaurants & bars.
And the virus spreads.

So the government has to step in and issue 'royal proclamations' to try to get the citizens to do what the scientists say.

And, of course, the morons refuse. 
So the virus keeps spreading.
A million new cases in the US in the last week. 

Of course, there are a few places where the government clamped down HARD at the very beginning. Shutting everything down. Telling people to stay home and enforcing it. Tracking down the people who were sick and those that got exposed. 
Kinda funny how those places aren't seeing huge spikes (or any cases at all in a couple places). 

 

Why don't we just start summarily executing everyone found outside during a COVID curfew? Yeah, that'll teach 'em.

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, markharju said:

Observation versus perception heavily influenced through bias and violent mob behavior... are different things.

Right, Black Lives Matter protesters can observe how unfairly the rules are applied. People who think Covid is a political conspiracy to crack down on them merely percieve it that way.

Quote

of those who are little more than mindless savages

Is there anything that's too racist for you to say?

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, markharju said:

Why don't we just start summarily executing everyone found outside during a COVID curfew? 

Because we don't think like you.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Right, Black Lives Matter protesters can observe how unfairly the rules are applied. People who think Covid is a political conspiracy to crack down on them merely percieve it that way.

Is there anything that's too racist for you to say?

What part of what I said was "racist" ???

[Guest]

[JoeWeber 2,720]

4 minutes ago, markharju said:

This exciting message was brought to you by the Private Scientists at the Bremen Biergarten Boys Club.

[olofscience 480]

27 minutes ago, markharju said:

What part of what I said was "racist" ???

Calling the BLM protesters, a big proportion whom are black, "mindless savages". The 19th century wants its racist terms back.

Quote

This is a Mind Control Device

Do you think people who drive 60mph in a 20mph school zone are "independent thinkers" who aren't afraid of crashing?

People don't slow down in school zones because they're "afraid of speed" and "rule-following bootlickers". Same for masks. Stop it with the strawmen. I hate to break it to you, but you're being neither original or clever.

[wmw999 2,444]

If your mind is weak enough to be controlled by a paper mask, imagine what wearing pants over half of your body must do.

Wendy P.

[olofscience 480]

11 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

If your mind is weak enough to be controlled by a paper mask, imagine what wearing pants over half of your body must do.

Wendy P.

My favourite is the argument against "masks reduce the oxygen you breathe" assertion -

"If you're worried about masks reducing your oxygen levels and killing brain cells, don't worry - that ship has already sailed."

[ryoder 1,590]

2 minutes ago, olofscience said:

My favourite is the argument against "masks reduce the oxygen you breathe" assertion -

Hey, it's a well-known fact that passing a gas through a layer of paper or cloth can change the chemical composition of the gas. That is why we are always reading the stories of surgical staff passing out in the the middle of surgical procedures and needing to be carried out of the room!