trump's Pardons

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

 

 

I'm guessing the 'pre-emptive' part is pardoning him before any charges are brought.

 

I remember Nixon being pardoned for 'any and all crimes'. It was never tested in any court of law.

I don't think any pardon could be applied for a 'future crime'. I can't see it passing any sort of legal challenge. 
The idea of a "license to commit crimes" sounds good in the movies. But this is real life.

I got a funny feeling that this will put a lot of this to a fair amount of testing.

 

Hi Joe,

Re:  'Nixon being pardoned for 'any and all crimes'.'

Well, by now we all know that my memory is not perfect ( Hey, I said it here first about not being perfect ).  I seem to remember that Nixon was pardoned for 'any and all crimes during his presidency and in the future' or something similar.

Thoughts, folks.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I actually like it when I get corrected on here; I damn sure can remember it then.  

 

[GeorgiaDon 362]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Cash for pardons. Gotta hand it to trump and the GOP. Soon America will be bananas from sea to sea.

Hannity urges Trump to pardon himself

I wonder if there is still enough time for the House to impeach Trump a second time? 

Don

[ryoder 1,590]

From Heather Cox Richardson's new essay tonight:

And yet, Trump seems to have accepted that he’s going to have to leave office, and to be exploring his options. New York Times reporters Maggie Haberman and Michael S. Schmidt tonight broke the news that he has discussed with advisers whether he should grant preemptive pardons to Don Jr., Eric, Ivanka, Jared Kushner, and Giuliani. This poses a problem for them, though, since to make a pardon stick it needs to be as specific as possible, which would mean he would have to suggest what they might have done that requires a pardon.

 

[yoink 321]

I’m just amused that he’s talking with Giuliani about pardons...If I were him I’d at least talk to a half competent lawyer.

 

There’s something well suss between those two.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

19 minutes ago, yoink said:

I’m just amused that he’s talking with Giuliani about pardons...If I were him I’d at least talk to a half competent lawyer.

 

There’s something well suss between those two.

Hi Will,

Re:  'There’s something well suss between those two.'

It damn sure isn't their IQ's.  I doubt that between the two of them that they could get to 100.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[wmw999 2,447]

10 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

Re:  'Nixon being pardoned for 'any and all crimes'.'

Well, by now we all know that my memory is not perfect ( Hey, I said it here first about not being perfect ).  I seem to remember that Nixon was pardoned for 'any and all crimes during his presidency and in the future' or something similar.

Thoughts, folks.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I actually like it when I get corrected on here; I damn sure can remember it then.  

 

From the proclamation:

"Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974."

So no pardon for future acts.

Wendy P.

[ryoder 1,590]

8 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Will,

Re:  'There’s something well suss between those two.'

It damn sure isn't their IQ's.  I doubt that between the two of them that they could get to 100.

Jerry Baumchen

 

Well, they both have obvious dementia.

[ryoder 1,590]

Andy Borowitz: White House Says Pardons Will Be Given First to Essential Frontline Criminals

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/white-house-says-pardons-will-be-given-first-to-essential-frontline-criminals

(Disable Javascript if you get a paywall)

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

5 hours ago, wmw999 said:

From the proclamation:

"Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974."

So no pardon for future acts.

Wendy P.

Hi Wendy,

Thanks for finding that.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  My not so perfect memory is at least consistent.  

 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

5 hours ago, wmw999 said:

From the proclamation:

"Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974."

So no pardon for future acts.

Wendy P.

It should be noted that such a broad pardon has not been tested in court. Nor is it entirely clear if such a broad pardon would stand up in court, or if a pardon has to be significantly more specific.

If Trump grants a very wide pardon for his family and himself, it is likely to end up in court. I don't think anybody would be overly surprised if he grants his family and confidants a very broad pardon on the way out.

[jakee 1,489]

The cash for pardon thing is funny. It leaked that the Justice department were investigting lobbyists for acting illegally in trying to put together a cash for pardon scheme but with no indication it succeeded. Justice department sources said no government officials were ever under investigation. Trumps reaction; "Pardon investigation is Fake News!" Hmm, methinks the mango doth protest too much!

 

And lthough pretty much the entire document appears to be redacted, I liked this quote “This political strategy to obtain a presidential pardon was ‘parallel’ to and distinct from [redacted]’s role as an attorney-advocate for [redacted].” I mean, I'll give myself one guess as to which unscrupulous hair dye oozing attorney-avocate they could possibly be talking about there 

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi folks,

Something to remember,

Jerry Baumchen

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

14 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

Something to remember,

Jerry Baumchen

Hi Jerry,

Or when the president's personal attorney asked for one.

On a slightly different note:

Dan Rather on FB:

 

Quote

Why is the Trump White House suddenly a very polite place to work? Everyone’s going around saying “pardon me.”

 

[headoverheels 333]

On 11/25/2020 at 4:49 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

One 'fun' part of that is that if Flynn is subpoenaed to testify, he can no longer 'claim the 5th' and refuse to testify.
 

Glenn Kirschner has interesting comments on that.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

On 12/1/2020 at 7:12 PM, Phil1111 said:

Cash for pardons. Gotta hand it to trump and the GOP. Soon America will be bananas from sea to sea.

Hannity urges Trump to pardon himself

 

On 12/2/2020 at 1:37 PM, jakee said:

The cash for pardon thing is funny. It leaked that the Justice department were investigating lobbyists for acting illegally in trying to put together a cash for pardon scheme but with no indication it succeeded. Justice department sources said no government officials were ever under investigation. Trumps reaction; "Pardon investigation is Fake News!" Hmm, methinks the mango doth protest too much!

 

And although pretty much the entire document appears to be redacted, I liked this quote “This political strategy to obtain a presidential pardon was ‘parallel’ to and distinct from [redacted]’s role as an attorney-advocate for [redacted].” I mean, I'll give myself one guess as to which unscrupulous hair dye oozing attorney-advocate they could possibly be talking about there 

Seen on FB - 

So... if you pay a bribe to get a pardon, can the pardon include the bribe-paying, or does that require a separate pardon?

[kallend 2,027]

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

 

Seen on FB - 

So... if you pay a bribe to get a pardon, can the pardon include the bribe-paying, or does that require a separate pardon?

Stealing that.  (Does that need a pardon too?)

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

2 hours ago, kallend said:

Stealing that.  (Does that need a pardon too?)

Nope. As I noted, it's a 'seen on FB'. 

Not mine. So you can't steal it from me. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

Trump announces wave of pardons, including Papadopoulos and former lawmakers Hunter and Collins

All fine conservatives who protected trump and committed fraud. trump's kind of people.

"President Donald Trump on Tuesday announced a wave of lame duck pardons, including two for men who pleaded guilty in Robert Mueller's investigation, as well as ones for Republican allies who once served in Congress...The pardons of former campaign aide George Papadopoulos, former US congressmen Duncan Hunter and Chris Collins,...

Also included in the batch announced on Tuesday are Alex van der Zwaan, the Dutch lawyer who was sentenced to 30 days in jail after pleading guilty to lying to Mueller investigators; two Border Patrol agents convicted in 2006 of shooting and wounding an unarmed undocumented immigrant and then covering it up; ...

The announcement Tuesday also included commuting the remaining prison term of former Rep. Steve Stockman, a Texas Republican who was convicted by a jury in Texas of almost two dozen felonies, including fraud and money laundering...Others included in the clemency batch on Tuesday were pardons for Alfonso Costa, a dentist who pleaded guilty to health care fraud;...Philip Esformes, a Florida nursing home mogul convicted of paying bribes in a Medicare fraud case,...

Both Papadopoulos and Van der Zwaan pleaded guilty to lying to investigators during the Russia investigation. And neither provided Mueller with any meaningful cooperation, prosecutors said.

Papadopoulos had lied to investigators about his contacts with people connected to Russia, including discussing with them "dirt" that could hurt Hillary Clinton in 2016 and a possible trip by Trump during the campaign to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin."

[obelixtim 150]

On 12/6/2020 at 4:36 AM, wolfriverjoe said:

 

Seen on FB - 

So... if you pay a bribe to get a pardon, can the pardon include the bribe-paying, or does that require a separate pardon?

"Among those Trump pardoned was a Blackwater contractor sentenced to life in prison for his role in killing 17 Iraqi civilians, including two women and two boys ages 8 and 11."

The best people!!!
 

Edited December 23, 2020 by obelixtim

[TriGirl 318]

3 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

.The pardons of ... former US congressmen Duncan Hunter ...

I'm embarrassed to say this guy was a Marine (and have been embarrassed by him for some time).  I'm pretty forgiving when people who have never served in government are elected to office, and then overstep or misunderstand (innocent mistakes) ethics and finance rules.  But military officers have to engage in -- and often lead -- annual discussions and training sessions on this stuff.  As a member of congress he committed gross violations of finance laws and ethics regulations (to the point that I wouldn't even have excused them for someone who might not "know better").  Double whammy.  

It's guys like him who make it so military members can be forced to take on even more training sessions, with documented attendance and participation -- taking away from doing our regular mission and from the annual skills training calendar.  It's disgusting.

[ryoder 1,590]

Some one-liners from Andy Borowitz today:

• Zodiac Killer Comes Forward To Request Pardon From Trump

• El Chapo Hurt That He Has Not Received Pardon

• Fox News Makes History As First TV Network To Receive Pardon

Edited December 24, 2020 by ryoder

[kallend 2,027]

A bunch more cronies got pardons today.

[lippy 918]

Not to downplay the level to which Trump is abusing his pardon power to benefit some truly despicable people but:

If we get to January 21 and the worst thing we can say about Trump’s last 30 days is that he pardoned Manafort and Jared Kushner’s dad**, I’ll consider it that we got off easy. 

**if you’re not familiar with the history of Charles Kushner, it is worth googling....

[jakee 1,489]

2 hours ago, lippy said:

Not to downplay the level to which Trump is abusing his pardon power to benefit some truly despicable people but:

If we get to January 21 and the worst thing we can say about Trump’s last 30 days is that he pardoned Manafort and Jared Kushner’s dad**, I’ll consider it that we got off easy. 

But we already know he's done something far worse than that. The pardon of the Blackwater mass murderers is not only amoral and unconscionable, it's damaging to the nation and dangerous to any westerners working in the middle east. 

 

Plus, the sentiment you express is flawed. It's not an either/or thing, like ok hes pardoning terrible people but at least he's not breaking the government. No, his abhorrent misuse of the pardon power is just a sign of how far he's willing to go in other areas over the next month, including attempting to break the government. 

 

Just goes to show the insanity of the US lame duck period, IMO.

[lippy 918]

4 hours ago, jakee said:

Plus, the sentiment you express is flawed. It's not an either/or thing, like ok hes pardoning terrible people but at least he's not breaking the government. No, his abhorrent misuse of the pardon power is just a sign of how far he's willing to go in other areas over the next month, including attempting to break the government. 

I think I could have worded my original post better...the point I was trying to make wasn't that what he's done so far with the pardons isn't that bad, but rather that he's likely to try to pull some even more brazen/damaging stuff before it's all over.