Arbitrary and capricious

[kallend 2,026]

Tough luck to be near the top of the list during the waning days of a vindictive and spiteful lame duck president and his lap dog attorney general.

DOJ set to execute 5 federal prisoners before Inauguration Day

 

[gowlerk 2,190]

5 minutes ago, kallend said:

Tough luck to be near the top of the list during the waning days of a vindictive and spiteful lame duck president and his lap dog attorney general.

DOJ set to execute 5 federal prisoners before Inauguration Day

 

I actually think it is the AG who is driving this push for punishment rather than Trump. I have mixed emotions about this. Executions are wrong, but I don't actually feel sorry for any of the people set to die, they all pretty much deserve it. It is wrong because of what it does to the rest of society to operate the killing system.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

It is wrong because of what it does to the rest of society to operate the killing system.

The problem is that there isn't enough volume to make a profit or allow for innovation so no ones happy. Like obsolete motherboards, we should just send them to China for recycling.

[Phil1111 1,149]

31 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I actually think it is the AG who is driving this push for punishment rather than Trump. I have mixed emotions about this. Executions are wrong, but I don't actually feel sorry for any of the people set to die, they all pretty much deserve it. It is wrong because of what it does to the rest of society to operate the killing system.

You don't feel sorry for the 18 year old Black teenager set to be executed?

[JoeWeber 2,720]

3 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

You don't feel sorry for the 18 year old Black teenager set to be executed?

Is there an 18 year old set to be executed? I thought it took 18 years after conviction.

[kallend 2,026]

36 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I actually think it is the AG who is driving this push for punishment rather than Trump. I have mixed emotions about this. Executions are wrong, but I don't actually feel sorry for any of the people set to die, they all pretty much deserve it. It is wrong because of what it does to the rest of society to operate the killing system.

Whether or not you feel sorry for them isn't really the point.

This perfectly illustrates the capricious way in which the death penalty is applied.

[Phil1111 1,149]

3 minutes ago, kallend said:

Whether or not you feel sorry for them isn't really the point.

This perfectly illustrates the capricious way in which the death penalty is applied.

trump knows his base. Christians to the SC. Executions for the religious masses, a christmas present from donald trump:

"Two-thirds of white mainline Protestants (66%) favor the death penalty,

Seven-in-ten white evangelical Protestants in the U.S. (71%) support the death penalty, a position held by many of their churches. Two of the largest U.S. evangelical denominations – the Southern Baptist Convention and the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod – teach that the death penalty is acceptable.,

The other religious group in favor of the death penalty, Islam"

All above from PEW research US surveys.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

7 minutes ago, kallend said:

Whether or not you feel sorry for them isn't really the point.

This perfectly illustrates the capricious way in which the death penalty is applied.

Nope, it illustrates the capricious way a con man can use the 58% Republican support for the death penalty to good economic use.

[gowlerk 2,190]

19 minutes ago, kallend said:

This perfectly illustrates the capricious way in which the death penalty is applied.

Yes, I agree with this 100%. The unevenness of this punishment is astounding. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Nope, it illustrates the capricious way a con man can use the 58% Republican support for the death penalty to good economic use.

Damn, you stole my post. The GOP and the the Sackler family.

The Sackler family are the owners and manufactures of OxyContin. They are substantially responsible for a large portion of up to 450,000 dead Americans in the opioid crisis. They knew their product was being abused and used consultants to sidestep the laws. To increase their profits, they destroyed evidence to conceal their crimes all to line their profits.

"Documents released last week in a federal bankruptcy court in New York show that the adviser was McKinsey & Company, the world’s most prestigious consulting firm. The 160 pages include emails and slides revealing new details about McKinsey’s advice to the Sackler family, Purdue’s billionaire owners, and the firm’s now notorious plan to “turbocharge” OxyContin sales at a time when opioid abuse had already killed hundreds of thousands of Americans."

They will never see a day in jail while the state executes a 18 year old for co-participation in one death.

[gowlerk 2,190]

14 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

The other religious group in favor of the death penalty, Islam"

Many religions oppose the death penalty, including famously the catholic church. Which AG Barr is a member of. China is not known for its religiosity, but it is the world leader in executions by far. People's attitudes toward this transcend their feelings about religion. 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

3 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Damn, you stole my post. The GOP and the the Sackler family.

The Sackler family are the owners and manufactures of OxyContin. They are substantially responsible for a large portion of up to 450,000 dead Americans in the opioid crisis. They knew their product was being abused and used consultants to sidestep the laws. To increase their profits, they destroyed evidence to conceal their crimes all to line their profits.

"Documents released last week in a federal bankruptcy court in New York show that the adviser was McKinsey & Company, the world’s most prestigious consulting firm. The 160 pages include emails and slides revealing new details about McKinsey’s advice to the Sackler family, Purdue’s billionaire owners, and the firm’s now notorious plan to “turbocharge” OxyContin sales at a time when opioid abuse had already killed hundreds of thousands of Americans."

They will never see a day in jail while the state executes a 18 year old for co-participation in one death.

Until it becomes personal many will never believe there is an opioid crisis. But there totally is an opioid crisis. I know I'm out!

[Dr.SkyFall 28]

22 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Until it becomes personal many will never believe there is an opioid crisis. But there totally is an opioid crisis. I know I'm out!

It has slowed down now but over the last 6-7 years I've lost a friend to Opiates every 6 months or so. Its crushing and I'm lucky I got out when I did. 

[Guest]

You might not feel this way if you personally knew anyone who had been raped, tortured, and then suffocated with a plastic bag. https://apnews.com/081e8cab26199c1c74a6b7ab4af5e32a

The victim was a friend and classmate of mine when I was stationed at Norfolk NAS. The killer and an accomplice kidnapped her off her own front porch and took her to his house in Chesapeake. By the time the cops got there it was too late.

THE REASON HE SPENT ONLY TWO YEARS ON DEATH ROW WAS BECAUSE HE PLEADED GUILTY. He went for a ride on Ol' Sparky in Greensville SCC; I'd have been happy to pull the switch myself.

He didn't deserve anything approaching mercy  -  the piece of shit got what he had coming to him.

For some strange reason, he was buried at Arlington, even though he wasn't in the military at the time of the crime. https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-an-executive-order-to-remove-andrew-chabrol-from-arlington-national-cemetery

And you wanna know what's even worse? A bleeding-heart anti-death-penalty org couldn't be bothered to spell the victim's name right. At least she got justice.

YOU FUCKING BLEEDING HEARTS MAKE ME WANT TO PUKE

Edited November 29, 2020 by Guest

[wmw999 2,444]

That was 27 years ago. Let it go. A couple of years before that the murderer of a friend of mine from work was executed, too. He left her in a field, having raped, tortured, and strangled her. His death didn't change anything.

Wendy P.

[gowlerk 2,190]

54 minutes ago, markharju said:

YOU FUCKING BLEEDING HEARTS MAKE ME WANT TO PUKE

Well, after you puke remember to clean up after yourself. I read the story you linked to and found the last sentence to be a good example of what the thread is about:

His accomplice, Stanley J. Berkeley, was sentenced to three life terms for murder, rape and abduction.

I agree, dude deserved to die. The fact the you knew the victim is not really relevant though.

[Guest]

It did change something: I got satisfaction (and so did that poor girl's widower) that justice had been served. Further, the death penalty is far less cruel than allowing someone to rot for decades. I have always found it peculiar that there are those (not alluding to  anyone here) who argue against the death penalty but support post-partum abortion. Never understood that.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Well, after you puke remember to clean up after yourself. I read the story you linked to and found the last sentence to be a good example of what the thread is about:

His accomplice, Stanley J. Berkeley, was sentenced to three life terms for murder, rape and abduction.

I agree, dude deserved to die. The fact the you knew the victim is not really relevant though.

You've got a point, but I believe that those who are against the death penalty haven't thought about the victims enough. Berkeley was an accomplice who fully aided in carrying out the crime. He didn't commit the murder, though. Chabrol did. Berkeley got what he deserved too, but I thought the Commonwealth was too lenient on him anyway. The Virginian-Pilot / Ledger Star did a story about the case right before Chabrol's execution. I was quoted as "...looking at my watch, noting the time at which Andrew Chabrol is scheduled to go for a three-minute ride on Ol' Sparky".

Edited November 29, 2020 by Guest

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Just now, markharju said:

You've got a point, but I believe that those who are against the death penalty haven't thought about the victims enough.

Did you know that in Illinois, the Innocence Project exonerated more death row inmates than were executed by the state?

Maybe those in favor of the death penalty haven't thought about the victims enough.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

2 minutes ago, markharju said:

It did change something: I got satisfaction (and so did that poor girl's widower) that justice had been served.

Telling that your satisfaction was foremost and her husbands worth only a passing reference in parentheses. You leave nothing to the imagination, I'll give you that.

[gowlerk 2,190]

22 minutes ago, markharju said:

You've got a point, but I believe that those who are against the death penalty haven't thought about the victims enough.

I've thought about the victims plenty. Executing people actually does exactly nothing to help the victims though. I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind, I know that won't happen. But my feeling is that we just don't need CP. We don't have it in Canada or, as you know nearly all of the western world. This does not mean that there are not many many people in our prisons who deserve to die for what they have done. And yes, I could personally bring myself to kill to avenge a loved one. I am against it because it would make a killer out of me, and all of us. And it means we would have to have a machinery of death to carry it out. Complete with workers to make it happen. On top of that it is of course inevitable that innocent people will be executed. And then layer on the subject of the post, the sheer randomness of who gets executed. When I add it all up the negatives out weigh the positives.

YMMV

[Guest]

Thank you for your thoughtful remarks. I haven't forgotten about Colonel Russell Williams. In his case, I would stay my hand. Not out of mercy, but because pathology such as his should be studied. He may yet be of use. BTW I didn't know he was being held in Quebec - I thought he was locked up in Ontario.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Guest

[Phil1111 1,149]

57 minutes ago, markharju said:

It did change something: I got satisfaction (and so did that poor girl's widower) that justice had been served. Further, the death penalty is far less cruel than allowing someone to rot for decades. ...

So why do you favor the death penalty then?

[JoeWeber 2,720]

19 minutes ago, markharju said:

In his case, I would stay my hand.

God complex, anyone?

[gowlerk 2,190]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

God complex, anyone?

He is being somewhat arbitrary and capricious.