THE Vaccine

[timski 80]

https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/types  

So it seems as if we all have some decisions to make about our future.  Discuss. Who has reservations/doubts?  I mean, the anthrax series didn't kill me!  

[headoverheels 333]

That link doesn't seem to include the type of vaccine from Pfizer or Moderna.   My wife shouldn't take live vaccines, and I probably shouldn't if I am in contact with her at the time. 

[NewGuy2005 53]

I have no reservations.  I'll take it when my turn comes up.

[kallend 2,106]

I have no reservations.

I jump out of airplanes wearing a straight-jacket (aka "wingsuit") for goodness sakes.

[gowlerk 2,249]

29 minutes ago, kallend said:

I have no reservations.

I jump out of airplanes wearing a straight-jacket (aka "wingsuit") for goodness sakes.

At our age, as I recall you are a little older than me, we have at least a 2% chance of dying from the virus if we become infected. I don't know about you, but I would not make another jump if it had a 1 in 50 chance of killing me. I'm with you. Vaccine? Hell yes! Where do I line up? Bring it on ASAP. 

And even if you are younger and less likely to perish, there is far more chance of you being damaged by SARS-CoV-2 than by any of the vaccines based on the trials. It's a no brainer. The one and only reason not to get it ASAP is the limited supply at the moment. You should wait your turn..

[Westerly 61]

the main bullshit about the vaccine is that we waited so long to approve it. i said it two months ago and I was exactly right. I said that what will likely happen is the vaccine will be determined to be safe and effective and all the testing would have been for nothing. well that is EXACTLY what happened. the report came out today. it's highly effective, less than 0.5% of people have a severe reaction and not ONE single person died from the vaccine. so imagine if we would have just skipped the testing and just started production right away. we would have already made tens of millions of doeses by now and who knows how many tens of thousands of lives would have been saved. but what do i know. i guess I was right by sole chance, right?

[oktolon 3]

At least BionTech is producing its vaccine since the beginning of stage 3 testing, I think the same applies to the other types of vaccines.

[mistercwood 287]

1 hour ago, Westerly said:

so imagine if we would have just skipped the testing and just started production right away.

It has been explained to you at least a dozen times now why your reasoning is circular and flawed. It's *great* that the tests have been successful, but your assertion that this was a done deal was never accurate, and the risks of skipping testing had second-order effects that would have been devastating if there had been problems.

[Baksteen 84]

6 hours ago, mistercwood said:

It has been explained to you at least a dozen times now why your reasoning is circular and flawed. It's *great* that the tests have been successful, but your assertion that this was a done deal was never accurate, and the risks of skipping testing had second-order effects that would have been devastating if there had been problems.

Don't even try - it's like talking to a broken record.

Or a wall for that matter.

 

Me, I'd be comfortable with any vaccine approved by the European authorities, be it live (attenuated), dead, vector-based or mRNA.

I'll just patiently wait my turn.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Baksteen
add at least some on-topic content

[NewGuy2005 53]

8 hours ago, Westerly said:

the main bullshit about the vaccine is that we waited so long to approve it. i said it two months ago and I was exactly right.

Thalidomide

[jakee 1,563]

9 hours ago, Westerly said:

the main bullshit about the vaccine is that we waited so long to approve it. i said it two months ago and I was exactly right. I said that what will likely happen is the vaccine will be determined to be safe and effective and all the testing would have been for nothing.

Yeah, totally. In future we should just test the stuff we know won’t work and not test the stuff we know will work. That makes complete sense and is not fatally flawed in any way.

[DougH 270]

9 hours ago, Westerly said:

the main bullshit about the vaccine is that we waited so long to approve it. i said it two months ago and I was exactly right. I said that what will likely happen is the vaccine will be determined to be safe and effective and all the testing would have been for nothing. well that is EXACTLY what happened. the report came out today. it's highly effective, less than 0.5% of people have a severe reaction and not ONE single person died from the vaccine. so imagine if we would have just skipped the testing and just started production right away. we would have already made tens of millions of doeses by now and who knows how many tens of thousands of lives would have been saved. but what do i know. i guess I was right by sole chance, right?

You won't let this go will you? You can shout it from the roof tops in every thread but it doesn't change the fact that your position on this is asinine.

[billvon 3,070]

12 hours ago, Westerly said:

the main bullshit about the vaccine is that we waited so long to approve it.

?? Normal phase 3 trial periods are six months.  We truncated that to two months.  That's "so long?"  I don't think it's long enough; we follow people for six months for a reason.

However, since they will be following those people after it's approved anyway, and the earliest a family like ours is going to get the vaccine is four months from now, I'm not worried.  At that point there will be data from a "normal" length phase 3 trial.

[gowlerk 2,249]

12 hours ago, Westerly said:

so imagine if we would have just skipped the testing and just started production right away.

I'm not sure why you think a vaccine can be approved before the manufacturer even submits it for approval. Which government agency do you consider responsible for Pfizer and Moderna insisting on doing their work properly? In any case, both have been ramping up for production long before approval. And Pfizer right now can't even get enough of the raw materials needed to keep on its hoped for production schedule. 

It would be good if you could just keep your complaining about this to one of the other threads. This one is supposed to be about how people feel about taking the vaccine and you have hijacked it and dragged down a rabbit hole.

[CygnusX-1 43]

I'll take the vaccine when it is approved by the EU. In today's day and age, I do not trust anything our pro-business corrupt government has to say.

[Westerly 61]

19 hours ago, mistercwood said:

It has been explained to you at least a dozen times now why your reasoning is circular and flawed. It's *great* that the tests have been successful, but your assertion that this was a done deal was never accurate, and the risks of skipping testing had second-order effects that would have been devastating if there had been problems.

Yea, but the difference is you guys keep talking about IFs and COULDs and MAYs. I am talking about what actually happened. As in what is real life here. What actually happened was nothing happened. There were no major safety consernes revealed during the test so while something COULD have happened, nothing actually did happen which is what matters. So yea, lots of things COULD have happened. None of it actually did happen. Hypothetical dont matter, results do. Go tell the families of the 250k dead that 'good thing we waited to look for a reaction that never actually happened'. In the end, if the goal is to identify safety concerns and no concerns were identified, then it was ultimately a waste of time. Nothing useful came from it, but a lot of bad sure did.

[gowlerk 2,249]

20 minutes ago, Westerly said:

Nothing useful came from it, but a lot of bad sure did.

Suffice it to say that I'm glad you are not in charge. Can we move on and talk about the vaccines now? The latest I'm hearing is that there is still no certainty that being vaccinated will prevent asymptomatic cases and vaccinated people being spreaders.

[billvon 3,070]

3 hours ago, Westerly said:

Yea, but the difference is you guys keep talking about IFs and COULDs and MAYs. I am talking about what actually happened. As in what is real life here.

What is real life is thalidomide, and terfenadine, and bromfenac, and seldane.  Nobody wants a repeat of them.
 

Quote

There were no major safety consernes revealed during the test 

" . . . The unnamed healthcare workers needed immediate treatment but are 'recovering well' after they developed symptoms shortly after receiving the jab. It is not known if either person needed to use the EpiPens they both carry with them at all times. 

They suffered an 'anaphylactoid reaction' to the vaccine, which is milder than anaphylaxis, and tends to involve a rash, shortness of breath, swelling of the face and tongue or a drop in blood pressure, the NHS says."

Perhaps that will be the only safety concern identified.  We'll see.

 

[TriGirl 333]

Enough to prompt a recommendation that people who experience allergic reactions should not get the vaccine at this time.  This means they don't know what those people's reactions were triggered by.  

I see this essentially as an extension of the safety trial period, while still putting the vaccine into use.  So, it actually was put out before it was determined to be "completely safe."  We're starting to vaccinate, plus keeping an eye out (and subsequently spreading the warnings) for unknown/unanticipated side effects.

[mistercwood 287]

4 hours ago, Westerly said:

Yea, but the difference is you guys keep talking about IFs and COULDs and MAYs. I am talking about what actually happened. As in what is real life here. What actually happened was nothing happened. There were no major safety consernes revealed during the test so while something COULD have happened, nothing actually did happen which is what matters. So yea, lots of things COULD have happened. None of it actually did happen. Hypothetical dont matter, results do. Go tell the families of the 250k dead that 'good thing we waited to look for a reaction that never actually happened'. In the end, if the goal is to identify safety concerns and no concerns were identified, then it was ultimately a waste of time. Nothing useful came from it, but a lot of bad sure did.

[Baksteen 84]

4 hours ago, Westerly said:

Yea, but the difference is you guys keep talking about IFs and COULDs and MAYs. I am talking about what actually happened. As in what is real life here. What actually happened was nothing happened. There were no major safety consernes revealed during the test so while something COULD have happened, nothing actually did happen which is what matters. So yea, lots of things COULD have happened. None of it actually did happen. Hypothetical dont matter, results do. Go tell the families of the 250k dead that 'good thing we waited to look for a reaction that never actually happened'. In the end, if the goal is to identify safety concerns and no concerns were identified, then it was ultimately a waste of time. Nothing useful came from it, but a lot of bad sure did.

Just curious, did you by any chance sign up as healthy volunteerfor the clinical trials?

[timski 80]

On 12/9/2020 at 9:41 PM, Westerly said:

Yea, but the difference is you guys keep talking about IFs and COULDs and MAYs. I am talking about what actually happened. As in what is real life here. What actually happened was nothing happened. There were no major safety consernes revealed during the test so while something COULD have happened, nothing actually did happen which is what matters. So yea, lots of things COULD have happened. None of it actually did happen. Hypothetical dont matter, results do. Go tell the families of the 250k dead that 'good thing we waited to look for a reaction that never actually happened'. In the end, if the goal is to identify safety concerns and no concerns were identified, then it was ultimately a waste of time. Nothing useful came from it, but a lot of bad sure did.

Bro, your starting to sound like him!!!  

[JoeWeber 2,823]

On 12/9/2020 at 10:41 PM, Westerly said:

Yea, but the difference is you guys keep talking about IFs and COULDs and MAYs. I am talking about what actually happened. As in what is real life here. What actually happened was nothing happened. There were no major safety consernes revealed during the test so while something COULD have happened, nothing actually did happen which is what matters. So yea, lots of things COULD have happened. None of it actually did happen. Hypothetical dont matter, results do. Go tell the families of the 250k dead that 'good thing we waited to look for a reaction that never actually happened'. In the end, if the goal is to identify safety concerns and no concerns were identified, then it was ultimately a waste of time. Nothing useful came from it, but a lot of bad sure did.

It seems like you are still alive in spite of the cock up. What happened buddy? Did they close your gym?

[jakee 1,563]

On 12/10/2020 at 2:41 AM, Westerly said:

Yea, but the difference is you guys keep talking about IFs and COULDs and MAYs. I am talking about what actually happened. As in what is real life here. What actually happened was nothing happened.

Australia just abandoned their vaccine because, during testing, something happened. 
 

But that’s ok right? You’d have known beforehand that we should test the Australian vaccine because it wasn’t right, and we shouldn’t test the US vaccine because it was right. That’s how it works, yeah?

[Phil1111 1,149]

On 12/9/2020 at 11:35 PM, TriGirl said:

Enough to prompt a recommendation that people who experience allergic reactions should not get the vaccine at this time.  This means they don't know what those people's reactions were triggered by.  

I see this essentially as an extension of the safety trial period, while still putting the vaccine into use.  So, it actually was put out before it was determined to be "completely safe."  We're starting to vaccinate, plus keeping an eye out (and subsequently spreading the warnings) for unknown/unanticipated side effects.

Its just too bad you can't vaccinate for stupidity.

Pharmacist Accused of Tampering With Vaccine Was Conspiracy Theorist, Police Say

"A pharmacist who was arrested on charges that he intentionally sabotaged more than 500 doses of the Covid-19 vaccine at a Wisconsin hospital was “an admitted conspiracy theorist” who believed the vaccine could harm people and “change their DNA,” according to the police in Grafton, Wis., where the man was employed.

The police said Steven Brandenburg, 46, who worked the night shift at the Aurora Medical Center in Grafton, Wis., had twice removed a box of vials of the Moderna vaccine from the refrigerator for periods of 12 hours, rendering them “useless.”

“Brandenburg admitted to doing this intentionally, knowing that it would diminish the effects of the vaccine,” the police said."

Makes me wonder if he went to the Wharton School of Pharmacy?

As a side note from the same story:

“he expressed that he was under great stress because of marital problems.” He said that according to co-workers, Mr. Brandenburg had brought a gun to work on two prior occasions.

Last month Mr. Brandenburg told his wife, who is in the process of divorcing him, that “the world is crashing down around us,”according to a motion she filed last week asking for sole custody of the couple’s two daughters, 4 and 6, after she learned he was under investigation in the incident at the hospital. She said she feared his reaction if he lost his job."

Edited January 5, 2021 by Phil1111