THE Vaccine

[yoink 321]

On 12/8/2020 at 8:59 PM, Westerly said:

the main bullshit about the vaccine is that we waited so long to approve it. i said it two months ago and I was exactly right. I said that what will likely happen is the vaccine will be determined to be safe and effective and all the testing would have been for nothing. well that is EXACTLY what happened. the report came out today. it's highly effective, less than 0.5% of people have a severe reaction and not ONE single person died from the vaccine. so imagine if we would have just skipped the testing and just started production right away. we would have already made tens of millions of doeses by now and who knows how many tens of thousands of lives would have been saved. but what do i know. i guess I was right by sole chance, right?

Yes. Right. 100% correct.

Edited January 5, 2021 by yoink

[brenthutch 444]

On 12/8/2020 at 11:59 PM, Westerly said:

the main bullshit about the vaccine is that we waited so long to approve it. i said it two months ago and I was exactly right. I said that what will likely happen is the vaccine will be determined to be safe and effective and all the testing would have been for nothing. well that is EXACTLY what happened. the report came out today. it's highly effective, less than 0.5% of people have a severe reaction and not ONE single person died from the vaccine. so imagine if we would have just skipped the testing and just started production right away. we would have already made tens of millions of doeses by now and who knows how many tens of thousands of lives would have been saved. but what do i know. i guess I was right by sole chance, right?

Production was concurrent with testing, thanks to Operation Warp Speed.  Normally a pharmaceutical would not risk producing a vaccine until it was well proved.  But the government paid for the vaccines ahead of time for that very reason.  That is why millions of doses were on hand as soon at it was approved.  BTW both the Pfizer and Moderna used messenger RNA for their vaccines.  (This was the first time this technology was used in a vaccine, and it was unproven)

Edited January 8, 2021 by brenthutch

[brenthutch 444]

On 12/8/2020 at 11:59 PM, Westerly said:

the main bullshit about the vaccine is that we waited so long to approve it. i said it two months ago and I was exactly right. I said that what will likely happen is the vaccine will be determined to be safe and effective and all the testing would have been for nothing. well that is EXACTLY what happened. the report came out today. it's highly effective, less than 0.5% of people have a severe reaction and not ONE single person died from the vaccine. so imagine if we would have just skipped the testing and just started production right away. we would have already made tens of millions of doeses by now and who knows how many tens of thousands of lives would have been saved. but what do i know. i guess I was right by sole chance, right?

Production was concurrent with testing, thanks to Operation Warp Speed.  Normally a pharmaceutical would not risk producing a vaccine until it was well proved.  But the government paid for the vaccines ahead of time for that very reason.  That is why millions of doses were on hand as soon at it was approved.

[brenthutch 444]

On 12/8/2020 at 11:59 PM, Westerly said:

Edited January 8, 2021 by brenthutch

[brenthutch 444]

On 12/8/2020 at 11:59 PM, Westerly said:

the main bullshit about the vaccine is that we waited so long to approve it. i said it two months ago and I was exactly right. I said that what will likely happen is the vaccine will be determined to be safe and effective and all the testing would have been for nothing. well that is EXACTLY what happened. the report came out today. it's highly effective, less than 0.5% of people have a severe reaction and not ONE single person died from the vaccine. so imagine if we would have just skipped the testing and just started production right away. we would have already made tens of millions of doeses by now and who knows how many tens of thousands of lives would have been saved. but what do i know. i guess I was right by sole chance, right?

Production was concurrent with testing, thanks to Operation Warp Speed.  Normally a pharmaceutical would not risk producing a vaccine until it was well proved.  But the government paid for the vaccines ahead of time for that very reason.  That is why millions of doses were on hand as soon at it was approved.

[kallend 2,026]

Pfizer/BioNTech did NOT use any federal money from Operation Warp Speed.  Their vaccine was developed in Germany.

[nwt 131]

6 minutes ago, kallend said:

Pfizer/BioNTech did NOT use any federal money from Operation Warp Speed.  Their vaccine was developed in Germany.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine

Quote

In July, Pfizer got a $1.95 billion deal with the government’s Operation Warp Speed, the multiagency effort to rush a vaccine to market, to deliver 100 million doses of the vaccine. The arrangement is an advance-purchase agreement, meaning that the company won’t get paid until they deliver the vaccines. Pfizer did not accept federal funding to help develop or manufacture the vaccine, unlike front-runners Moderna and AstraZeneca.

Pfizer has distanced itself from Mr. Trump and Operation Warp Speed. In an interview on Sunday, Kathrin Jansen, a senior vice president and the head of vaccine research and development at Pfizer, said, “We were never part of the Warp Speed,” adding, “we have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.”

yup

[brenthutch 444]

4 minutes ago, kallend said:

Pfizer/BioNTech did NOT use any federal money from Operation Warp Speed.  Their vaccine was developed in Germany.

Yes they did, as did AstraZeneca, Moderna, and J&J

”When the Department of Health and Human Services released Pfizer's $1.95 billion coronavirus vaccine contract with Operation Warp Speed last Wednesday, the agreement revealed that the Trump administration didn't include government rights to intellectual property typically found in federal contracts. The drugmaker has downplayed its involvement in Operation Warp Speed, the Trump administration's more than $10 billion program to make a coronavirus vaccine available in record time. Although Pfizer didn't receive government funding this spring toward research and development of the vaccine, it nevertheless received one of the largest Operation Warp Speed supply contracts to date on July 21.”

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/pfizers-deal-with-operation-warp-speed-excludes-common-government-rights/

 

[Phil1111 1,149]

6 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Yes they did, as did AstraZeneca, Moderna, and J&J

”. Although Pfizer didn't receive government funding this spring toward research and development of the vaccine, it nevertheless received one of the largest Operation Warp Speed supply contracts to date on July 21.”

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/pfizers-deal-with-operation-warp-speed-excludes-common-government-rights/

 

Your own quote refutes your statement. I give up.

19 minutes ago, kallend said:

Pfizer/BioNTech did NOT use any federal money from Operation Warp Speed.  Their vaccine was developed in Germany.

Yes and for Brent:

Further reading on how trump and "I only hire the best" Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar. Screwed up their $10 billion "Warp Speed" cluster f*#k.

 

I know now how QAnon and trump worship starts and enjoys such a dedicated, devoted following.

[billvon 2,990]

15 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Your own quote refutes your statement. I give up.

He's not posting to express a coherent viewpoint.  He's posting to piss you off.  If you reply, he wins.

[brenthutch 444]

7 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Your own quote refutes your statement. I give up.

Yes and for Brent:

 

Kallend said, “Pfizer/BioNTech did NOT use any federal money from Operation Warp Speed.”

Did you get that?  “DID NOT USE ANY FEDERAL MONEY FROM OPERATION WARP SPEED” he did NOT equivocate, he did not make a distinction between developing and production.  Not only did Pfizer receive federal money, they got one of the bigger slices $1.95 billion 

[brenthutch 444]

8 minutes ago, billvon said:

He's not posting to express a coherent viewpoint.  He's posting to piss you off.  If you reply, he wins.

It is not a viewpoint, it is a fact.
 

On this, I have won regardless.

Thanks for playing, you may pick up your consolation prize on the way out.

Edited January 8, 2021 by brenthutch

[SkyDekker 1,465]

8 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Not only did Pfizer receive federal money, they got one of the bigger slices $1.95 billion 

When they delivered doses of a vaccine. Not to develop the vaccine. If they didn't have a vaccine to deliver, they would not get paid.

But I do understand that for a Trump supporter having to pay for products delivered might be a bit of an unusual concept. I can see how you would want to congratulate and hail your president for such an amazing accomplishment.

Edited January 8, 2021 by SkyDekker
typo

[brenthutch 444]

29 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

When they delivered doses of a vaccine. Not to develop the vaccine. If they didn't have a vaccine to deliver, they would not get paid.

 

Wow, just wow.  They cashed a $1.95 billion dollar check in JULY!  Months before the vaccine was even approved let alone delivered.  That check was so they could start production before the vaccine was approved, which removed the financial risk for them (as well as the others).  In the event the vaccine failed, (which was a distinct possibility as a messenger RNA vaccine was new technology and had never been used in a vaccine before) they still would have gotten the money.

Looks like we may have a little “Hutch derangement syndrome” going around.

Edited January 8, 2021 by brenthutch

[olofscience 480]

3 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

They cashed a $1.95 billion dollar check in JULY!

I'm not sure you know how purchase contracts work.

But then again, you don't know a lot of things and you keep claiming you do.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

Wow, just wow.  They cashed a $1.95 billion dollar check in JULY!

No they didn't.

From the contract found here

"Due to variances in fill/finish yield, Pfizer shall invoice for and the Government, through the Consortium Management Firm (CMF), shall pay for actual quantities delivered, at a rate of $19.50 per dose. Subject to regulatory and technical success, Pfizer shall use its diligent efforts to provide the Government the full 100M doses on or before the final delivery date."

[brenthutch 444]

So the long and short of it is Pfizer DID get federal money. 
More to the original point I was making.....the pharmaceutical companies didn’t wait until the vaccines were approved before beginning production.  Because of operation Warp Speed production ran concurrently with phase three trials.

BTW there were subcontractors who DID get federal dollars that supported Pfizer’s vaccine development.  I have personal first hand knowledge of this.

[nwt 131]

14 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

So the long and short of it is Pfizer DID get federal money. 

 

2 hours ago, kallend said:

Pfizer/BioNTech did NOT use any federal money from Operation Warp Speed.  Their vaccine was developed in Germany.

From context, clearly he's talking about development. I don't know how anyone could take from this statement that Pfizer is giving the doses away for free. Note the word "use" that you choose to interpret as "receive".

[olofscience 480]

15 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

So the long and short of it is Pfizer DID get federal money. 

One thing you definitely share with Trump, is your inability to admit being wrong.

It's clear in the contract, money will only change hands IF:

1. the vaccine was approved
2. Pfizer delivered the doses

And only AFTER the above 2 conditions were met would the money be paid out.

17 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I have personal first hand knowledge of this.

Since the vaccine was developed in Germany, you have contacts there?

[nwt 131]

19 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

More to the original point I was making.....the pharmaceutical companies didn’t wait until the vaccines were approved before beginning production.  Because of operation Warp Speed production ran concurrently with phase three trials.

This is factually incorrect. Pfizer and BioNTech started working on their vaccine long before warp speed or really any attention from the US Government.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

22 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

BTW there were subcontractors who DID get federal dollars that supported Pfizer’s vaccine development.  I have personal first hand knowledge of this

Considering your demonstrated inability to process relatively simple reading and math, I don't think your personal first hand knowledge is worth much.

[brenthutch 444]

3 minutes ago, nwt said:

This is factually incorrect. Pfizer and BioNTech started working on their vaccine long before warp speed or really any attention from the US Government.

I said production NOT development.  Again, MY ORIGINAL POINT, was that Pharmaceutical companies did NOT wait until December to start production of their vaccines.  The rest is just minutia.

Edited January 8, 2021 by brenthutch

[olofscience 480]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

Considering your demonstrated inability to process relatively simple reading and math, I don't think your personal first hand knowledge is worth much.

I'd give it as much credibility as markharju's personal first hand knowledge of churches in Edinburgh, Scotland.

[brenthutch 444]

2 minutes ago, olofscience said:

I'd give it as much credibility as markharju's personal first hand knowledge of churches in Edinburgh, Scotland.

Wife is on the COVID task force for her pharmaceutical company.  Close enough for you?

[olofscience 480]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

Wife is on the COVID task force for her pharmaceutical company.  Close enough for you?

Certainly. Now it remains to see what they got the money for:

34 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

BTW there were subcontractors who DID get federal dollars that supported Pfizer’s vaccine development

But then you say:

9 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I said production NOT development

Which is it?