FAA approval of 6 skydivers in Cessna 206-U

[hjortur 0]

Hi everyone

Here in Iceland w have US registerd Cessna 206-U which we got last year after installing all neccesary skydiving modifycations in US before flown to Iceland.

One of the mods was to install 6 skydiver seat-belts with STC, but for some reason the docs for the plane still states that max number of passengers are 5 persons.

My airplane broker in US tells me that it needs a FAA Field approval to have it registred for 6 skydivers. Since we are operating in Iceland it would be a big hazzle to get Field Approval up here in the north.

Does anyone have some docs or info about this approval or what I can do to have the docs changed and send up 6 skydivers in each load?

Best regards,
HB
Skydive Iceland.

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Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway !

[spinjob 0]

6 divers and gear plus a pilot in a 206!!!! dear god that'd be a bad c of g situation.
Even without gear your talking about each passenger being about 140lbs to reach gross weight. there's a reason it's a 5 seater, and that 5th seat in the back is usually for kids.

[IanHarrop 42]

6 jumpers + pilot in a 206 is normal at a Cessna DZ.

You may not think its right but it has been thus for many years.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[riggerrob 643]

I have done hundreds of jumps from Cessna 206 carrying 6 jumpers. That includes static-line, IAD, tandem and accompanied free-fall.
As long as you only carry 2 hours (or less) of fuel, you will not exceed gross weight. It also helps if you discard most of the interior upholstery and all but one of the seats.
The easiest way to keep them balanced is for the first skydiver on board to sit on the floor, with his back against the right side of the instrument panel, the second jumper between his knees, etc.
The worst place to sit is leaning against the rear bulkhead.

[riggerrob 643]

Try calling Jack Hooker at "Hooker Harness" near Chicago, Illinois, USA. Jack invented the modern seat-belt configuration for skydivers.

[vpjr 18]

The 206 has a gross of 3600lbs and mine have empty weights of 1800-1900 lbs. 6 Jumpers at 200 pilot at 180 and fuel for 3 loads plus reserve. The CG is in legal and safe for takeoff and empty landing on C models and newer. Most 206s just dont climb well when loaded to gross. Put a big engine and wing mods and they do better. With passengers you have to have seats. 6 seats in a 206. Skydivers do not use seats. Where is the Limitation of pilot and 5 skydivers?

[keithbar 1]

vpjr

The 206 has a gross of 3600lbs and mine have empty weights of 1800-1900 lbs. 6 Jumpers at 200 pilot at 180 and fuel for 3 loads plus reserve. The CG is in legal and safe for takeoff and empty landing on C models and newer. Most 206s just dont climb well when loaded to gross. Put a big engine and wing mods and they do better. With passengers you have to have seats. 6 seats in a 206. Skydivers do not use seats. Where is the Limitation of pilot and 5 skydivers?

to the op. pssst. I'd listen to THIS! guy. he knows a thing or two about a 206

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[BigMark 1]

The one at Taft gets up and goes.

[hjortur 0]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all your inputs.

VPJR: I'm waiting to get info about where this limitation is specified but I do believe that it is in the FAA approved Flight manual of the Cessna 206-U.

We have had everything unrelated to skydiving ripped out, Horton Stol kit installed, Vortex generators installed, skydiving steps installed and Lexan rollup door installed. The motor is IO-550 so we do have the power to climb but last year a 5 skydiver load was in average 0,5 TAC hours from start to shutdown on the motor.
The load balance sheets after the changes are way over the weight of 6 skydivers according to our mechanic after those changes.

We always just carry 2 loads + reserve of fuel to minimize the take off weight of each load.

According to FAA regulation - AC No: 105-2C Sport Parachute Jumping

14. Pilot responsibilities
F. Seatbelts and Approved Loading. FAR Section 91.14 permits persons aboard an aircraft for the purpose of participating in sport parachuting activities to use the floor of the aircraft for a seat. Seatbelts must be provided for each person and their installation must be approved. The approved number of persons which can be carried is found on the aircraft's type certificate data sheet, supplemental type certificate data sheet, Form 337 (field approval), or in the FAA-approved flight manual.

Does anyone have or know about someone that has got a Field approval for 6 skydiver configuration?

Best regards,
HB
Skydive Iceland.

---------------------------------------------------------
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway !

[DHemer 0]

6 skydivers+pilot must take a while to climb if you are not a sea level
I suspect my DZ's 206 has one of the lower performance engines since if we have a full load of 5 jumpers we normally bail out at 8k agl (10.2k asl) to maintain a reasonable turn around
Getting up to 10k for my aff jumps took ages with 4 jumpers
Temps over 30 degrees C on the ground don't help either

[hjortur 0]

Our dropzone is about 20-50 Meters (60-150 feet) asl.

We do turn 5 skydivers load to 10K in 0,5 TAC hours from start to shutdown of the motor.

We take AFF to 12K and the extra 2K with 2-3 persons is average about 0,1 TAC hours.

Of course we don't have the temperature problem up here in the north since ground temperature is usually not above 20-25° C.

Foreign skydivers do talk about the speedy climb of our airplane but I don't have comparison since I havn't jumped from 206 abroad.

---------------------------------------------------------
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway !

[vpjr 18]

Well if your overweight with 6 jumpers and fuel the point is mute. 5 jumpers it is. That lexan door must weight 30lbs min. If you have autopilot, big stack of radios, it sounds like your aircraft is heavy. No STC that I know of. No Field approval that is transferable that I know of. AC 105 2C is Cancelled and now -2D Par 8 page 9 (f. and g.) "The maximum number of skydivers is determined by that aircraft’s W&B limitations, as long as there is a seatbelt or restraint for each skydiver." "will most commonly be found" is not a limitation in my book. Thank you for working this thread. I needed to go through it and print for one of my new pilots. [/url]http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%20105-2D.pdf[url]

[vpjr 18]

My wifes U206 is set up quite well with engine and wing mods. It will do .5s with 6 to 13K agl in spring and fall and 36 min in the summer. My 520 airplane with the same wing mods but lighter does it 6 min slower. My aircraft have all tweeks you can do and motivated pilots. Someday Ill be telling you how fast my PT6 U206 does it.

[hjortur 0]

Hi VPJR

Thank you very much for this info. I will have my specialists research our loadsheet and determine the max load for our airplane.

At least this totally changes our situation from the other regulation which our broker and mechanic have been pointing on as a barrier to be able to fly with 6 skydivers.

Blue skies and thanks for all your inputs.
HB
Skydive Iceland.

---------------------------------------------------------
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway !

[vpjr 18]

I think your airplane needs to be weighed. The Cessna original W/B is kind of difficult to determine how Cessna configured the plane at delivery and what it should weigh now with seats, armrest, cargo doors, etc removed. Years of adding and removing things the math can get messed up and if its working against you weigh the plane.

[hjortur 0]

Hi VPJR

Thank you for this point. When we had it modified last year it was weighted with and without the skydiving modifications and new weight/balance charts done.

---------------------------------------------------------
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway !

[vpjr 18]

What Model U206 do you have? What was the empty weight? Something still sounds wrong.

[hjortur 0]

I'm not a mechanic or even a pilot. I just pay the bills and use the plane to skydive from. I'll get the needed info later this week when our mechanic and chief pilot have checked out the figures and weighted the Cessna.

---------------------------------------------------------
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway !

[dima39 1]

Hello!

Same problem with Cessna-206U. Local authorities doesn't give us permission to fly with 6 passengers + pilot, only 6 including pilot.
Also need to install "certified seat belts" on plane that worked before in skydiving without seat belts.
Any recommendations how to solve this problem in short time with minimal expenses?

[fencebuster 7]

We had a U-206B for one season that was seatbelted for 6 skydivers. We never flew six jumpers in that airplane because there was not enough room unless one jumper was in the baggage area -- which put the airplane in an aft of limit condition, so that in the case of a stall the plane was likely to spin in. It is a relatively comfortable ride for 5, but 6 doesn't work very well IMO, unless your jumpers are all six tiny girls.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[riggerrob 643]

Call Hooker Harness or Nevada Airlift.

[fanya 3]

jumping 6 in a 206U is miserable and scary, I swear to go we barely cleared the 10ft fence surrounding the airport every time we did it.

[dima39 1]

fanya

jumping 6 in a 206U is miserable and scary, I swear to go we barely cleared the 10ft fence surrounding the airport every time we did it.

We are in Jordan near Dead Sea, 1200 fts bellow sea level with intended jump altitude 9000-10000 fts.
First of all need solution with seat belts, than think about permission for 6 passengers.

[dima39 1]

Thanks for suggestion!

[gowlerk 2,193]

Quote

We are in Jordan near Dead Sea, 1200 fts bellow sea level with intended jump altitude 9000-10000 fts.
First of all need solution with seat belts, than think about permission for 6 passengers.

That will help you with lift. But it won't help you in an emergency with aft C of G.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.