Lefties and lockdowns

[kallend 2,026]

On the whole I prefer people who wear masks when not strictly necessary to those who refuse to wear masks when it is necessary (like those GOP morons in the Capitol basement last week).

Anyone remember Herman Cain?

[gowlerk 2,190]

Governments and people of all political stripes all over the world are dealing with the situation as best they can and in somewhat different but mostly the same ways. The only real difference I have found between people on the right and people in the centre ( I don't  know any real leftists ) is that people on the right tend to complain a lot more about how unfair it is that they are inconvenienced.

[Westerly 61]

7 hours ago, brenthutch said:

 It is not based on any rational assessment.

Is that based on an extensive study involving several hours a day on Facebook? The people who actually know what they are talking about (e.g. the MDs and PhDs) would argue otherwise. When the hospitals get overwhelmed, shit gets real quickly for anyone who needs medical attention. In some parts of CA, they are literately turning people away who would normally get front-line treatment in the ER because they flat-out dont have the resources. There are no beds and no one to help. Healthcare is not an unlimited resource and if it's consumed then it's gone and you dont get it. That's a problem for anyone who would need to go to the hospital for any reason, including reasons that are not related to Covid and not the patient's fault in any capacity.


 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Westerly

[Erroll 80]

3 hours ago, Westerly said:

Healthcare is not an unlimited resource and if it's consumed then it's gone and you dont get it. That's a problem for anyone who would need to go to the hospital for any reason, including reasons that are not related to Covid and not the patient's fault in any capacity.

Indeed.

The largest trauma center in this country was   completely empty on New Year's day, as a direct result of a curfew and a ban on alcohol sales. All those resources were available to help deal with Covid related cases instead.

From The Citizen:- 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

15 hours ago, brenthutch said:

 

Finally you make a point we can all agree with. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

26 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Finally you make a point we can all agree with. 

It had to happen even a quarter flipped in the air will stand on its edge if flipped a billion times.

[brenthutch 444]

5 hours ago, Westerly said:

Is that based on an extensive study involving several hours a day on Facebook? 
 

No, just simple logic.

If locking the country down would have saved millions of lives.  We would have had to have lost millions of lives in the first place.

[sfzombie13 324]

11 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I don’t know where you got the “ saving millions of lives” notion.  It is not based on any rational assessment.  As far as blaming us goes, here in State College PA (think of it as the Austin TX of Pennsylvania) we have universal mask requirements (enforced by the police) Bars are closed, restaurants were closed during the holidays and are now operating at greatly reduced capacity or take out only, municipal services have been curtailed, schools are closed, Penn State students have not been allowed to return and the deeply blue population is almost universally compliant.  Yet our COVID is spreading more than it ever has been.  It might be comforting to think a mask will make everything better.... but the data would suggest “the virus is going to virus.”

yet the actual data, shown here, and here, says different.  there is also a study explaining why here.  it seems that conservatives give the same weight to non-scientific and anecdotal evidence as they do for scientific evidence.  it isn't really that surprising when you find that simply being angry makes you more susceptible to misinformation, and that when your party changes their stance on something, the supporters of said party also change theirs.  add that to the fact that conservatives are also more sensitive to cultural norms, like the systemic racism we have nurtured for hundreds of years here and it makes sense.  then you find things like just being in a corrupt state pays better dividends for stocks, and you have a recipe for creating more of said corruption.

none of these are mine, but they seem to follow the anecdotal evidence that i see around me in wv.  since i am relatively smart and not a conservative, i had to wait to see studies before just taking it as fact, and i still question and prepare to change based on new evidence. 

on a side note, did you know that if we had super intelligent machines, we wouldn't be able to control them?  kind of makes you wonder if we shouldn't be messing with things we don't quite understand completely.  like the reason roman concrete was so good.

so brent, i think you should spend some time on this website (reddit/science)reading actual science, but make sure you're not mad first and realize that it is the norm in society to learn new things, understand them, and use them to grow.

[lippy 918]

6 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

No, just simple logic.

If locking the country down would have saved millions of lives.  We would have had to have lost millions of lives in the first place.

WTF are you talking about?  

[brenthutch 444]

2 hours ago, Erroll said:

Indeed.

The largest trauma center in this country was   completely empty on New Year's day, as a direct result of a curfew and a ban on alcohol sales. All those resources were available to help deal with Covid related cases instead.

From The Citizen:- 

It would seem the most sensible course of action would be to make the curfew and alcohol ban permanent.  Sure, some folks might complain about not being able to have an occasional beer and thousands of jobs will be lost, but those people are just being selfish and want people to die.

 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

11 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

It would seem the most sensible course of action would be to make the curfew and alcohol ban permanent.  Sure, some folks might complain about not being able to have an occasional beer and thousands of jobs will be lost, but those people are just being selfish and want people to die.

 

I'm thinking you might consider returning to your old schtick of Guns and CO2 while you work on your new routine.

[brenthutch 444]

10 minutes ago, lippy said:

WTF are you talking about?  

Westerly responded to Crenshaw’s claim that lockdowns were of “limited benefit” with “saving MILLIONS of lives is a limited benefit?”  I just pointed out that our failure to lock down has not resulted in millions of deaths so a lockdown could not have saved millions of lives.

[lippy 918]

12 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Westerly responded to Crenshaw’s claim that lockdowns were of “limited benefit” with “saving MILLIONS of lives is a limited benefit?”  I just pointed out that our failure to lock down has not resulted in millions of deaths so a lockdown could not have saved millions of lives.

So you started a thread to complain about 'liberals and their lockdowns'.  Then when somebody points out that lockdowns saved lives, you say 'well we didn't lock down and millions didn't die so that makes no sense'.  

I should know by now that you're not big on grey areas, but this is a bit much.

 

 

[brenthutch 444]

12 minutes ago, lippy said:

So you started a thread to complain about 'liberals and their lockdowns'.  Then when somebody points out that lockdowns saved lives, you say 'well we didn't lock down and millions didn't die so that makes no sense'.  

I should know by now that you're not big on grey areas, but this is a bit much.

 

 

First of all I complained about nothing.  Second I never said lockdowns don’t save any lives.  Finally I just pointed out Westerly’s simple failure in logic.  
 

I think it is HILARIOUS that my posting of a congressman’s article has spun up such a shit storm.  I just held up the mirror, it’s not my fault if you guys don’t like what you see.

[sfzombie13 324]

23 minutes ago, lippy said:

So you started a thread to complain about 'liberals and their lockdowns'.  Then when somebody points out that lockdowns saved lives, you say 'well we didn't lock down and millions didn't die so that makes no sense'.  

I should know by now that you're not big on grey areas, but this is a bit much.

 

 

notice he has not one thing to say about my post calling out the hypocrisy, and i will assume it is because it has so many outside factual sources that it is hard to dispute.  it seems brent is arguing from anecdotal evidence while leaving out factual evidence.

[lippy 918]

18 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

First of all I complained about nothing.  Second I never said lockdowns don’t save any lives.  Finally I just pointed out Westerly’s simple failure in logic.  
 

I think it is HILARIOUS that my posting of a congressman’s article has spun up such a shit storm.  I just held up the mirror, it’s not my fault if you guys don’t like what you see.

Come on man.  Your initial post and subsequent comments on it demonstrate the point you were trying to make...You then take the chicken-shit approach of falling back to say you're just sharing the congressman's post.  Your trolling skills are getting stronger

At the risk of getting dinged for a PA, I'm gonna go ahead and say I think you've been eating too many sugar cereals.

[kallend 2,026]

3 minutes ago, lippy said:

Come on man.  Your initial post and subsequent comments on it demonstrate the point you were trying to make...You then take the chicken-shit approach of falling back to say you're just sharing the congressman's post.  Your trolling skills are getting stronger

 

I disagree.  Being such an obvious troll demonstrates insufficient trolling skill.

[gowlerk 2,190]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

I disagree.  Being such an obvious troll demonstrates insufficient trolling skill.

The success of a troll is measured by the number of reactions it generates, not by its cleverness.

[kallend 2,026]

4 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The success of a troll is measured by the number of reactions it generates, not by its cleverness.

If you count reactions per trolling post (benefit/cost), then RonD beats Brent by an order of magnitude.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

14 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Correct it is our fault.  Our population is full of sedentary, overweight, diabetic, hypertensive exercise adverse smokers and vapers.  We want the right to eat and drink everything our hearts desire yet lack the responsibility to mitigate those behaviors.  
 

Except, based on my observations, the 'younger & fitter' crowd is more likely to be wearing a mask. The 'old, sedentary & overweight' crowd is less likely. 

But (for once) you make a valid point. 

The selfish & short sighted behaviors based on our 'rights' and the refusal to accept our 'responsibilities' are very damaging. 
That goes for diet, exercise, behaviors like smoking, or taking steps to minimize the spread of Covid.

The sad part is that the behaviors in the first group generally only affect the person making the bad decisions. 
Not so much with behaviors regarding the pandemic.

[gowlerk 2,190]

2 minutes ago, kallend said:

If you count reactions per trolling post (benefit/cost), then RonD beats Brent by an order of magnitude.

Yes, RonD is the champion. He is awesome in his awe shucks approach and in the way he works to maintain his image as an innocent. His levelheaded never angry and never mean posts are sometimes inspirational. I have never even considered blocking him as I have done with those who only seek to argue.

[Westerly 61]

9 hours ago, brenthutch said:

No, just simple logic.

If locking the country down would have saved millions of lives.  We would have had to have lost millions of lives in the first place.

Yea, is that logic based on a comprehensive study of your favorite Covid-related discussions on Facebook? It's been publicly modeled and stated by all of the health officials that if we do nothing millions will die from Covid. So far every projection they have made has come true. In fact, Trump explicitly claimed he 'saved millions of lives' by enacting the lockdowns. He used those models as a speaking point to praise himself on how good of a job he did.

[brenthutch 444]

2 hours ago, Westerly said:

Yea, is that logic based on a comprehensive study of your favorite Covid-related discussions on Facebook? It's been publicly modeled and stated by all of the health officials that if we do nothing millions will die from Covid. So far every projection they have made has come true. In fact, Trump explicitly claimed he 'saved millions of lives' by enacting the lockdowns. He used those models as a speaking point to praise himself on how good of a job he did.

I for one don’t give much credence to Trump’s claims.  Trump also said he won the election in a landslide.

[jakee 1,489]

On 1/16/2021 at 7:12 PM, brenthutch said:

It is pretty self evident I don’t see a need to defend it.

Then why are you still talking? Seriously, why? 

If you're unable to defend it and lack the moral fibre to even commit to saying whether you even agree with it then what is the point of this thread? What is the point of your further posts?  What is the point of your participation in any part of this forum except to troll?

[jakee 1,489]

On 1/17/2021 at 4:14 PM, gowlerk said:

His levelheaded never angry and never mean posts are sometimes inspirational.

That's a misconception. Ron may never be mean to an individual but he is intensely mean spirited and insulting towards wider groups to which many here belong.