Lefties and lockdowns

[olofscience 480]

43 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I didn’t move the goalposts, I scored the touchdown, got the two point conversion and spiked the ball in the end zone.

Stop touching yourself. (in this forum at least)

[BIGUN 1,319]

Quote

 

Deaths per 100,000:

Califonia-114

Oklahoma-98

If lockdowns worked as advertised the numbers would be reversed.....but they’re not......so.....

BTW the UK’s death rate had nowhere to go but down.  One of the highest in the world 

 

17 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

The population density per square mile in California is 253. In Oklahoma it is 58. Also, maybe you can't catch it from a cousin.

I'm still on my first cup of coffee, so bear with me - If California has 16 more deaths than Oklahoma per 100,000 and California's population density per square mile is four times greater than Oklahoma, how is Oklahoma doing better? 

Quote

 

Also, maybe you can't catch it from a cousin.

 

We've been divorced for quite some time now. 

 

[JoeWeber 2,728]

11 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I'm still on my first cup of coffee, so bear with me - If California has 16 more deaths than Oklahoma per 100,000 and California's population density per square mile is four times greater than Oklahoma, how is Oklahoma doing better? 

Let me work it out for you. 16 times 58 times 253 divided by 58 divided by 16 equals 253. Exactly the number of deaths you would expect if Oklahoma were California. Make sense now?

[sfzombie13 324]

1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

Let me work it out for you. 16 times 58 times 253 divided by 58 divided by 16 equals 253. Exactly the number of deaths you would expect if Oklahoma were California. Make sense now?

you left out that part of the equation that said blue is green now and up is down.  take into account the fact that the earth is rotating slightly to the left of what it was almost 150k years ago and it makes perfect sense, on a full moon evening anyway.

[nwt 131]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I didn’t move the goalposts, I scored the touchdown, got the two point conversion and spiked the ball in the end zone.

You completely ignored my post about Illinois. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

58 minutes ago, nwt said:

You completely ignored my post about Illinois. 

Return the favor. 

 

It works better that way.

[yoink 321]

The only way people like Brent will ever change their mind is when they or someone they love die from Covie from their own selfish and stupid behavior, and sometimes not even then.,

There was a news story a while ago about a guy who was swearing ON HIS DEATHBED while dying from covid that covid was a hoax.

 

I've no idea why you all still interact with him. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by yoink

[sfzombie13 324]

41 minutes ago, yoink said:

 

I've no idea why you all still interact with him. 

 

[pchapman 279]

You've had a bunch of crap here Brent but I do find one of your comparisons more interesting:

North Carolina (apparently locked down) vs. Tennessee (apparently not locked down)

I don't know the actual lockdown conditions; I'm just taking it as you presented it.

Tennessee did have a higher peak than NC --  the last big peak for both of them being early in January (presumably from xmas holidays), but Tennessee has indeed brought the cases down by a greater fraction, AND has a slightly lower case load now.

(I won't show all the numbers but the two states are #9 and #15 on the list at the moment using Johns Hopkins 7 day average case loads, viewed at this news site: https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/covid-19-in-the-u-s-how-do-canada-s-provinces-rank-against-american-states-1.5051033)

So yes Brent -- NC vs. Tennessee is a valid situation to ponder.  

Both states have a somewhat similar rural/urban population (I looked online), and they are neighboring east-west (which gets rid of some of the 'very different climate' issues with other comparisons), but other details are unknown to me.

Also remember that us non-right-wingers do have plenty of issues with lockdowns too, as there are so many variations of both lockdowns and non-lockdowns restrictions and actual behaviour. (E.g., "Why can a giant box store selling some food stay open when a small store that doesn't, has to stay closed?"  or  "Why are ski slopes closed here but not elsewhere - how bad is the risk outdoors even given that one has to share chairlifts to some extent?"  ... with the usual caveats about all indoor places restricting capacity / distancing / not having people lounging around indoors for long periods. )

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by pchapman

[brenthutch 444]

43 minutes ago, pchapman said:

You've had a bunch of crap here Brent but I do find one of your comparisons more interesting:

North Carolina (apparently locked down) vs. Tennessee (apparently not locked down)

I don't know the actual lockdown conditions; I'm just taking it as you presented it.

Tennessee did have a higher peak than NC --  the last big peak for both of them being early in January (presumably from xmas holidays), but Tennessee has indeed brought the cases down by a greater fraction, AND has a slightly lower case load now.

(I won't show all the numbers but the two states are #9 and #15 on the list at the moment using Johns Hopkins 7 day average case loads, viewed at this news site: https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/covid-19-in-the-u-s-how-do-canada-s-provinces-rank-against-american-states-1.5051033)

So yes Brent -- NC vs. Tennessee is a valid situation to ponder.  

Both states have a somewhat similar rural/urban population (I looked online), and they are neighboring east-west (which gets rid of some of the 'very different climate' issues with other comparisons), but other details are unknown to me.

Also remember that us non-right-wingers do have plenty of issues with lockdowns too, as there are so many variations of both lockdowns and non-lockdowns restrictions and actual behaviour. (E.g., "Why can a giant box store selling some food stay open when a small store that doesn't, has to stay closed?"  or  "Why are ski slopes closed here but not elsewhere - how bad is the risk outdoors even given that one has to share chairlifts to some extent?"  ... with the usual caveats about all indoor places restricting capacity / distancing / not having people lounging around indoors for long periods. )

 

 

 

I know that nobody likes lockdowns, it’s just that the folks on the left hate them less and are demonstrably more likely to use them.  TN and NC being a prime example.  I find it ironic that the same folks on the left who claim to hate them overstate their efficacy and champion there use.  We now have eighteen pages on this thread demonstrating that observation.

Edited February 11, 2021 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,728]

7 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I know that nobody likes lockdowns, it’s just that the folks on the left hate them less and are demonstrably more likely to use them.  TN and NC being a prime example.  I find it ironic that the same folks on the left who claim to hate them overstate their efficacy and champion there use.  We now have eighteen pages on this thread demonstrating that observation.

Folks on the left tend to be more willing to take one for the team and folks on the right are more willing to take one for themselves.

Edited February 11, 2021 by JoeWeber

[olofscience 480]

6 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I know that nobody likes lockdowns, it’s just that the folks on the left hate them less and are demonstrably more likely to use them.

No, lefties don't hate them less. I hate lockdowns and can't wait for this one to end. I hate, hate, HATE them. Enough for you?

The difference is that there are vulnerable people I care about, that I would do something I hate for.

 

Are there people in your life you'd kill for? What if you were forced to do something you REALLY hate, (say, attend a course on how AGW is a threat every day, 9-5, for a year) to save their life, would you do it?

Not really sure you'd hate that example, so don't bother nitpicking that, but imagine having to do something you hate for them - would you do it or are you just too selfish?

Edited February 12, 2021 by olofscience

[BIGUN 1,319]

Deleted

Edited February 12, 2021 by BIGUN

[olofscience 480]

7 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

See this is really where it has to stop in here. Why was this necessary?

You're right, it was unnecessary, deleted. My apologies.

Edited February 12, 2021 by olofscience

[brenthutch 444]

On 2/11/2021 at 6:53 PM, olofscience said:

No, lefties don't hate them less. I hate lockdowns and can't wait for this one to end. I hate, hate, HATE them. Enough for you?

The difference is that there are vulnerable people I care about, that I would do something I hate for.

Wouldn’t it be better to protect the vulnerable, with vaccines and isolation and let the folks who are not at risk go on with their lives.  The lockdowns are destroying more lives than they are saving.  Millions of children are being denied an education millions of people are loosing their livelihoods.  If the lockdowns worked as advertised, we would see a large difference between areas with community spread that are locked down and areas that are not, but we don’t.  
What do we do if the vaccines are ineffective against the dozen or so mutations of COVID?  Do we stay locked down forever?

[JoeWeber 2,728]

20 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Wouldn’t it be better to protect the vulnerable, with vaccines and isolation and let the folks who are not at risk go on with their lives.  The lockdowns are destroying more lives than they are saving.  Millions of children are being denied an education millions of people are loosing their livelihoods.  If the lockdowns worked as advertised, we would see a large difference between areas with community spread that are locked down and areas that are not, but we don’t.  
What do we do if the vaccines are ineffective against the dozen or so mutations of COVID?  Do we stay locked down forever?

No we don't. You're not without a point and the longer this continues without a cohesive and effective national strategy, that is nationally implemented, the better your argument will get. 

[gowlerk 2,207]

46 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

No we don't. You're not without a point and the longer this continues without a cohesive and effective national strategy, that is nationally implemented, the better your argument will get. 

The situation is evolving and will soon substantially change. We have known all along that an effective vaccine would be a game changer and we have an exceptionally effective one. The only thing keeping this angst going is simply the impatience we are all feeling as we wait for production to ramp up. In a fairly short time there will no longer be a shortage of vaccine but rather a shortage of people willing to take it. 

As far as a national strategy goes, the way your nation is set up there can never really be a comprehensive one. However there can be a national strategy for production and distribution into the hands of state players who will then make individual decisions about priorities. It is hard for them to look good when they are dealing with shortages. Officials are taking heat for factors completely beyond their control.

Bars will be reopening in the US at full capacity before the end of summer. In some states earlier than others. And that is what really matters to most of the people whining about their children not being in school. 

[JoeWeber 2,728]

7 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The situation is evolving and will soon substantially change. We have known all along that an effective vaccine would be a game changer and we have an exceptionally effective one. The only thing keeping this angst going is simply the impatience we are all feeling as we wait for production to ramp up. In a fairly short time there will no longer be a shortage of vaccine but rather a shortage of people willing to take it. 

As far as a national strategy goes, the way your nation is set up there can never really be a comprehensive one. However there can be a national strategy for production and distribution into the hands of state players who will then make individual decisions about priorities. It is hard for them to look good when they are dealing with shortages. Officials are taking heat for factors completely beyond their control.

Bars will be reopening in the US at full capacity before the end of summer. In some states earlier than others. And that is what really matters to most of the people whining about their children not being in school. 

Are you open to renting out your crystal ball?

[gowlerk 2,207]

Just now, JoeWeber said:

Are you open to renting out your crystal ball?

It has played out pretty much as I expected this far. With the exception that I did not anticipate we would manage to get our shit together enough to limit the damage as much as we have. Best pandemic and response ever!

[nwt 131]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Wouldn’t it be better to protect the vulnerable, with vaccines and isolation and let the folks who are not at risk go on with their lives.

 Everyone is vulnerable. Some more than others, but nobody is "not at risk".

[billvon 2,998]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Wouldn’t it be better to protect the vulnerable, with vaccines and isolation and let the folks who are not at risk go on with their lives.  The lockdowns are destroying more lives than they are saving.  Millions of children are being denied an education millions of people are loosing their livelihoods. 

I have a much better idea.  Make our #1 priority saving lives.  Then protect the vulnerable businesses and livelihoods.

[brenthutch 444]

7 minutes ago, nwt said:

 Everyone is vulnerable. Some more than others, but nobody is "not at risk".

There is no such thing as zero risk.  Do we lock down and mandate masks for flu season?  The flu kills thousands every year, young children are especially vulnerable and flu vaccines are not as effective as COVID vaccines.  

[piisfish 140]

On 2/11/2021 at 7:08 PM, JoeWeber said:

Folks on the left tend to be more willing to take one for the team and folks on the right are more willing to take one for themselves.

Folks on the left have basements and are better prepared for their pedosatanist hobbies whereas righties are just plain vanilla boring survivalists. 

[nwt 131]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

There is no such thing as zero risk.  Do we lock down and mandate masks for flu season?  The flu kills thousands every year, young children are especially vulnerable and flu vaccines are not as effective as COVID vaccines.  

Flu is irrelevant. 

[brenthutch 444]

3 minutes ago, nwt said:

Flu is irrelevant. 

Ask the thousands of families that have lost a child to the flu, if flu is irrelevant?