President Biden, critics corner

[JoeWeber 2,823]

  On 6/9/2023 at 12:41 AM, BIGUN said:

Kamala - ya  know, the Czar of Immigration can't be found near the border. 

 

Absolutely. She should be there daily wearing body armor with her name on front written with a sharpie.

[JoeWeber 2,823]

  On 6/9/2023 at 12:41 AM, BIGUN said:

I can't help but wonder if Biden had an (R) after his name if you would be so accommodating.

So on a 1 to 10 scale how would you grade yourself as a Republican moderate?

[Phil1111 1,149]

  On 6/9/2023 at 12:41 AM, BIGUN said:

So sayeth CNN. A loss of 20% followed by a 10% recovery is not a bull market. 

All hail the inflation Reduction Act - cause the American family has lost ~$7,100/annum over the past two years in purchase power.

The border still has no solution with seven million people crossing the border and Kamala - ya  know, the Czar of Immigration can't be found near the border. 

He tried to forgive around a trillion dollars in school debt - ya know, revenue for the country. Now, he's not solely for the national debt being 31 trillion dollars - but he hasn't stopped it either. But hey! everything's slowed down, so it's all good.   Cause ya know, we got the least worst guy. 

I can't help but wonder if Biden had an (R) after his name if you would be so accommodating.     

Biden just doesn't have the chutzpah that trump has when it concerns spending money.

"The national debt has risen by almost $7.8 trillion during Trump’s time in office. That’s nearly twice as much as what Americans owe on student loans, car loans, credit cards and every other type of debt other than mortgages, combined, according to data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. It amounts to about $23,500 in new federal debt for every person in the country." a WP, ProPublica story.

[billvon 3,070]

  On 6/9/2023 at 12:41 AM, BIGUN said:

So sayeth CNN. A loss of 20% followed by a 10% recovery is not a bull market. 

It meets the definition of bull market.  It may, of course, not persist - I have a feeling that there will be a few backslides.  But the market is now trending up.  And not just the 500 - NASDAQ up since January, DJIA up since March.  Which is good news for everyone.

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All hail the inflation Reduction Act - cause the American family has lost ~$7,100/annum over the past two years in purchase power.

The IRA at least seems to have ended that.

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The border still has no solution with seven million people crossing the border and Kamala - ya  know, the Czar of Immigration can't be found near the border. 

Yes.  And I have yet to see any horrible results of that immigration.  Immigrants - both legal and illegal - commit fewer violent crimes than US citizens, thus they reduce the rate of serious crimes within the US.  They pay billions in taxes every year, and use less than that in public services - thus they are helping us pay for our military, our roads etc.  They harvest the vegetable and fruit you eat.  

Now, they are still breaking the law, and that's a problem.  But it's about the level of problem that illegal prostitution is.  Yes, it happens, and yes, it's against the law and people (both johns and hookers) shouldn't do it.  But in both cases most of the problems come about because it is illegal, not because it is inherently bad.  And for proof of both of those, just look at legal immigration and the areas where prostitution is legal.

One of the simplest solutions would be to make it legal to come into the US and work.  Put a bunch of restrictions on it to keep the anti-immigrant coalition happy (i.e. biometric checks at the border, a ruinous tax rate, or a scarlet letter or something) but make it legal.  At that point 90% of our immigration problems go away just like that.

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I can't help but wonder if Biden had an (R) after his name if you would be so accommodating. 

Perhaps not.  But if the choice were Trump running as a democrat (which he was for a long time) and Biden as a republican, Biden would still get my vote.  Even if he had done half the shit that Trump did.

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Cause ya know, we got the least worst guy. 

That we did.  Not a good outcome - but better than the alternative.  There are people who would make far better presidents than Biden.  Unfortunately, they are too smart to run.

 

[BIGUN 1,406]

  On 6/9/2023 at 3:54 AM, billvon said:

I have a feeling that there will be a few backslides.  But the market is now trending up.  And not just the 500 - NASDAQ up since January, DJIA up since March.  Which is good news for everyone.

Unless you're still down 10%. We'll see in time. 

  On 6/9/2023 at 3:54 AM, billvon said:

The IRA at least seems to have ended that.

That remains to be seen. Most of it was credits for renewables - and most folks are still trying to buy groceries. Beef & chicken up 50 to a 100% since the pandemic. 

  On 6/9/2023 at 3:54 AM, billvon said:

One of the simplest solutions would be to make it legal to come into the US and work. 

We've had this discussion and I'm beginning to think we're the only two to come to some sort of path towards resolution. 

  On 6/9/2023 at 3:54 AM, billvon said:

Perhaps not.  But if the choice were Trump running as a democrat (which he was for a long time) and Biden as a republican, Biden would still get my vote. 

I guess we all have our Clintons. We still wind up with the least worst person. And. the field for 2024 looks even worse. Maybe we should join Grimmie in SA. 

  On 6/9/2023 at 3:54 AM, billvon said:

Unfortunately, they are too smart to run.

It's like watching a really bad political game of "Survivor" work it's way down to the weakest person winning. And, then everyone who voted in their direction setting them on a pedestal for being a master player. And, it's still on after twenty years. Course, the S/O says I'd be the first one voted off, so there is that :)   

[BIGUN 1,406]

  On 6/9/2023 at 1:04 AM, Phil1111 said:

Biden just doesn't have the chutzpah that trump has when it concerns spending money.

"The national debt has risen by almost $7.8 trillion during Trump’s time in office. That’s nearly twice as much as what Americans owe on student loans, car loans, credit cards

C'mon Phil. I said it's not just Biden. It's the past 20 years of stupidity of running up the credit card bills and to keep asking for them to raise our credit limit while paying the minimum.  

[BIGUN 1,406]

  On 6/9/2023 at 12:55 AM, JoeWeber said:

how would you grade yourself as a Republican moderate?

Higher than what you would get. :) This is Biden's critic corner; not Bigun's.

[Phil1111 1,149]

  On 6/9/2023 at 10:08 AM, BIGUN said:

C'mon Phil. I said it's not just Biden. It's the past 20 years of stupidity of running up the credit card bills and to keep asking for them to raise our credit limit while paying the minimum.  

True, "But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. [7] So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

American voters love republican tax cuts and democrat spending equally. Although they both love military spending. Thats not to say that the entire western world doesn't love piling on debt for their children to pay off. The US is not alone in this regard. But in the last 30 years its shown leadership.

[JoeWeber 2,823]

  On 6/9/2023 at 10:10 AM, BIGUN said:

This is Biden's critic corner; not Bigun's.

Maybe not, but it does have a ring to it. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

  On 6/9/2023 at 10:10 AM, BIGUN said:

... This is Biden's critic corner; not Bigun's.

 

  On 6/9/2023 at 12:53 PM, JoeWeber said:

Maybe not, but it does have a ring to it. 

Hmmm. Somehow I imagined shoulders a mile wide. I could be wrong.

[wmw999 2,534]

  On 6/9/2023 at 10:02 AM, BIGUN said:

It's like watching a really bad political game of "Survivor" work it's way down to the weakest person winning. And, then everyone who voted in their direction setting them on a pedestal for being a master player. And, it's still on after twenty years.

Most manipulative asshole. I’d be proud to voted off. When I first heard about it I thought it sounded so cool. Then I thought maybe it’d be about finding the best leader (which is very different from the best survivalist). But no, it was all about finding who would stand tallest by tearing everyone else down.

As far as deficit spending, I’d say that Reagan was the one who really started the ballooning, all while complaining loudly about free-spending democrats. Here is an interesting chart which can be expanded and contracted. Looks to me like Reagan (who did inherit high inflation and had the 1987 meltdown) and then GHW Bush increased the deficit year-by year. Clinton (beneficiary of the tech boom) not only decreased it year by year, he actually ended up with a surplus. GW Bush (who had 9/11 to deal with, and then dealt himself Iraq) did have some reduction in his second term until the meltdown started, then Obama had to compete dealing with the meltdown, at huge cost. But under him the deficit was decreasing again noticeably.

Then we have Trump — he’s not entirely in this chart, but dang he ran it up. You see, if you cut income (by, say, reducing taxes), and then either keep the budget steady or increase it, the deficit still goes up.

We are addicted as a people to cheap stuff coming easy, no matter who (else) pays and how. Look at our Walmarts and dollar stores, our fast clothing, and our environment. 

Wendy P. 

[BIGUN 1,406]

  On 6/9/2023 at 1:30 PM, wmw999 said:

Most manipulative asshole. I’d be proud to voted off. When I first heard about it I thought it sounded so cool. Then I thought maybe it’d be about finding the best leader (which is very different from the best survivalist). But no, it was all about finding who would stand tallest by tearing everyone else down.

Damn. Sounds like a close tie for getting voted off first. :)

  On 6/9/2023 at 1:30 PM, wmw999 said:

As far as deficit spending, I’d say that Reagan was the one who really started the ballooning, all while complaining loudly about free-spending democrats. Here is an interesting chart which can be expanded and contracted. Looks to me like Reagan (who did inherit high inflation and had the 1987 meltdown) and then GHW Bush increased the deficit year-by year. Clinton (beneficiary of the tech boom) not only decreased it year by year, he actually ended up with a surplus. GW Bush (who had 9/11 to deal with, and then dealt himself Iraq) did have some reduction in his second term until the meltdown started, then Obama had to compete dealing with the meltdown, at huge cost. But under him the deficit was decreasing again noticeably.

Then we have Trump — he’s not entirely in this chart, but dang he ran it up. You see, if you cut income (by, say, reducing taxes), and then either keep the budget steady or increase it, the deficit still goes up.

We are addicted as a people to cheap stuff coming easy, no matter who (else) pays and how. Look at our Walmarts and dollar stores, our fast clothing, and our environment. 

Preach, sister. I don't get it. It's a steady race to the bottom - politically, financially, globally. It's no wonder the millennials are like - fuck it; I'm going home and play video games.  

[JoeWeber 2,823]

  On 6/9/2023 at 1:25 PM, Phil1111 said:

 

Hmmm. Somehow I imagined shoulders a mile wide. I could be wrong.

I think you're wrong, yes, and that's the problem. I am completely over the "reasonable Republican" schtick. 

[JoeWeber 2,823]

  On 6/9/2023 at 1:51 PM, BIGUN said:

Damn. Sounds like a close tie for getting voted off first. :)

Preach, sister. I don't get it. It's a steady race to the bottom - politically, financially, globally. It's no wonder the millennials are like - fuck it; I'm going home and play video games.  

How can you not get it? Wendy laid it out clearly and succinctly. We can't do a comprehensive analysis every post, right? Republican economic policy and absurd huge tax cuts for the morbidly rich are the biggest contributors followed closely by Bush's wars. Honestly, when I look at how a minority of selfish, not too smart, demagogues, in low population Christian Red stated are able to hold the nation hostage on so many issues I too think going home and playing video games sounds like a fine plan. The real thinkers aren't on your team, brother, come on over.

[Phil1111 1,149]

  On 6/9/2023 at 2:08 PM, JoeWeber said:

I think you're wrong, yes, and that's the problem. I am completely over the "reasonable Republican" schtick. 

I was more along the lines of his military service, reasonable gun activism, volunteer work and postings in this "moderate forum". IMO he is a moderate republican. Its just that in the current climate recognizing such individuals is difficult. Like Liz Cheney most have been driven away from the discourse.

[JoeWeber 2,823]

  On 6/9/2023 at 2:34 PM, Phil1111 said:

I was more along the lines of his military service, reasonable gun activism, volunteer work and postings in this "moderate forum". IMO he is a moderate republican. Its just that in the current climate recognizing such individuals is difficult. Like Liz Cheney most have been driven away from the discourse.

Sure and because I only kick medium to large size dogs I'm a moderate asshole?

[gowlerk 2,249]

  On 6/9/2023 at 2:08 PM, JoeWeber said:

I think you're wrong, yes, and that's the problem. I am completely over the "reasonable Republican" schtick. 

A reasonable R these days would be one who votes D.

[BIGUN 1,406]

  On 6/9/2023 at 2:08 PM, JoeWeber said:

I am completely over the "reasonable Republican" schtick.

That doesn't sound very reasonable. 

[JoeWeber 2,823]

  On 6/9/2023 at 3:33 PM, BIGUN said:

That doesn't sound very reasonable. 

It was right up until I grew tired of the pretense. For example, and forgive me if I'm in error, you are anti-abortion because you see it as the cruel and theologically uninformed taking of innocent life, right? That the position effectively condemns half of humanity to the animal cycle of reproduction and vests them with vastly fewer absolute human rights is secondary. How is that reasonable?

[wmw999 2,534]

  On 6/9/2023 at 3:40 PM, JoeWeber said:

For example, and forgive me if I'm in error, you are anti-abortion because you see it as the cruel and theologically uninformed taking of innocent life, right?

He also knows it's a personal thing, and doesn't try to talk anyone else into those feelings. I'm about as pro-choice as it gets (being a woman and all that), and don't have any problem with someone else feeling differently. There should really be some sort of counter to "let's try this on a societal scale and see what happens" on new ideas, just like there should be a counter to "if we don't allow things to change, they won't, and it'll be just like when we were kids and safe in our parents' homes."

If we don't have conservatives, we end up just as crazy as all liberal, all the time.

Wendy P.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 6/9/2023 at 10:08 AM, BIGUN said:

C'mon Phil. I said it's not just Biden. It's the past 20 years of stupidity of running up the credit card bills and to keep asking for them to raise our credit limit while paying the minimum.  

It is mostly Republicans though. Kallend posted the numbers before. The deficits runs by R Presidents absolutely dwarf deficits run by D presidents. If you are really interested in fiscally responsible governing, you would never, ever vote for a Republican president.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 6/9/2023 at 3:54 AM, billvon said:

Now, they are still breaking the law, and that's a problem.

Sure, but one has to wonder what a bigger problem is:

1. illegally coming to the US to be a productive member of society
2. not returning classified documents to the rightful owner when requested

[billvon 3,070]

  On 6/9/2023 at 3:40 PM, JoeWeber said:

That the position effectively condemns half of humanity to the animal cycle of reproduction and vests them with vastly fewer absolute human rights is secondary.

I don't think that's the position.  I mean, it's fairly easy to not get pregnant, so outside cases of rape*, any woman can choose how much risk she wants to take.  And there's certainly an argument to be made that killing of fetuses is seen as immoral; note that a murderer who kills a pregnant woman can be charged with two murders in many places.

The question becomes which is the greater harm - allowing the killing of all those fetuses or taking away the right of women to determine what happens to their bodies.  And until technology advances a fair amount, those are the only two options.  And I tend to come down on the side of "not telling women what to do with their bodies" mainly because of what I've seen throughout my life - but I can see both sides.  Abortion is IMO absolutely the worst way to handle an unintended pregnancy, but since I don't understand everything that is going on in someone else's life, I would not try to make the argument that it's always the worst option for everyone.

(* - IIRC Bigun does not oppose abortion in cases of rape)

[billvon 3,070]

  On 6/9/2023 at 2:57 PM, gowlerk said:

A reasonable R these days would be one who votes D.

Or who doesn't vote for anyone based on their party.

[gowlerk 2,249]

  On 6/9/2023 at 4:12 PM, billvon said:

I don't think that's the position.  I mean, it's fairly easy to not get pregnant, so outside cases of rape*, any woman can choose how much risk she wants to take.  And there's certainly an argument to be made that killing of fetuses is seen as immoral; note that a murderer who kills a pregnant woman can be charged with two murders in many places.

The question becomes which is the greater harm - allowing the killing of all those fetuses or taking away the right of women to determine what happens to their bodies.  And until technology advances a fair amount, those are the only two options.  And I tend to come down on the side of "not telling women what to do with their bodies" mainly because of what I've seen throughout my life - but I can see both sides.  Abortion is IMO absolutely the worst way to handle an unintended pregnancy, but since I don't understand everything that is going on in someone else's life, I would not try to make the argument that it's always the worst option for everyone.

(* - IIRC Bigun does not oppose abortion in cases of rape)

Yes Bill. I can sum up that posistion easily. Only bad girls and those who have been raped get abortions.