President Biden, critics corner

[brenthutch 444]

4 hours ago, kallend said:

So Biden wants to raise taxes on billionaires, while Sen. Rick Scott (R, FL) wants to raise taxes on the poor and sunset Social Security.

In a nutshell this illustrates where the GOP's interests really lie, despite lame attempts to disavow.

I think Rick Scott just wants everyone to pay their fair share.  It’s a little ridiculous when I pay more income tax than 100 million citizens COMBINED!  Everyone should have a little skin in the game. I think the average voter knows that and that is why they will hand over control of Congress to the GOP this fall.

[jakee 1,489]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I think Rick Scott just wants everyone to pay their fair share.  It’s a little ridiculous when I pay more income tax than 100 million citizens COMBINED!  Everyone should have a little skin in the game. I think the average voter knows that and that is why they will hand over control of Congress to the GOP this fall.

It is a lot ridiculous that an economic system which puts such a low value on the (necessary) jobs of those 100M has developed.

The average voter knows that, which is why the GOP have had to resort to gaming the system so they are able to gain a disproportionately large share of power from fewer voters.

[wmw999 2,444]

20 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I think Rick Scott just wants everyone to pay their fair share.  It’s a little ridiculous when I pay more income tax than 100 million citizens COMBINED!  Everyone should have a little skin in the game. I think the average voter knows that and that is why they will hand over control of Congress to the GOP this fall.

Virtually everyone in the country pays taxes. Not necessarily income tax, but sales tax, property tax (even if it's because the rent house owner pays property tax), gasoline tax. Even the "lowest-tax" states have some sort of tax, because they all have services (however basic).

Just because someone isn't unhappy in the specific way you'd like them to be doesn't mean they're not unhappy.

Wendy P.

[airdvr 210]

On 3/29/2022 at 7:43 AM, jakee said:

It is a lot ridiculous that an economic system which puts such a low value on the (necessary) jobs of those 100M has developed.

 

That almost sounds like trickle down economics.

[jakee 1,489]

57 minutes ago, airdvr said:

That almost sounds like trickle down economics.

The real world result of it? Yes, yes it does.

[kallend 2,026]

Now that the WaPo is doing a pretty detailed examination of the Hunter Biden affair  (which looks pretty sleazy to me) I wonder if the right wing commentators will continue to label it "fake news" simply on account of being the "MSM".

[kallend 2,026]

On 3/29/2022 at 6:49 AM, wmw999 said:

Virtually everyone in the country pays taxes. Not necessarily income tax, but sales tax, property tax (even if it's because the rent house owner pays property tax), gasoline tax. Even the "lowest-tax" states have some sort of tax, because they all have services (however basic).

Just because someone isn't unhappy in the specific way you'd like them to be doesn't mean they're not unhappy.

Wendy P.

I'm unhappy that my wife and I apparently pay income taxes at a higher (far higher, in fact) rate than Jeff Bezos and Donald Trump.

[gowlerk 2,190]

9 minutes ago, kallend said:

I'm unhappy that my wife and I apparently pay income taxes at a higher (far higher, in fact) rate than Jeff Bezos and Donald Trump.

That would be because you have failed at turning your income into something that is not earned. Jeff does not earn income. Instead he generates wealth. Wealth is not taxable.

[kallend 2,026]

25 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

That would be because you have failed at turning your income into something that is not earned. Jeff does not earn income. Instead he generates wealth. Wealth is not taxable.

That's because the wealth we have generated is insufficient to buy a lobbyist or even a congressperson.  Something we have in common with the large majority of Americans.

[gowlerk 2,190]

2 minutes ago, kallend said:

That's because the wealth we have generated is insufficient to buy a lobbyist or even a congressperson.  Something we have in common with the large majority of Americans.

Yes, that is true. And also the fact that the large middle class must pay the bills of the nation because if not them, who?

[kallend 2,026]

8 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yes, that is true. And also the fact that the large middle class must pay the bills of the nation because if not them, who?

I have no problem with paying my taxes to support the nation.  What I object to is that the ultra-wealthy have bought their way out of doing so.

[brenthutch 444]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

I'm unhappy that my wife and I apparently pay income taxes at a higher (far higher, in fact) rate than Jeff Bezos and Donald Trump.

Elon Musk paid more in taxes last year than everyone on this forum will pay in their entire lives.  That doesn’t seem fair to Elon.

[billvon 2,991]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Elon Musk paid more in taxes last year than everyone on this forum will pay in their entire lives.  That doesn’t seem fair to Elon.

In 2018, he made $4 billion and paid zero in taxes.  That's zero.  That doesn't seem fair to the family of 4 who is struggling to get by, while paying thousands in taxes that they are unable to dodge.

This year he paid taxes because he felt like it.  That's the difference between the rich and everyone else.  They pay whatever they want, whenever they want.

[gowlerk 2,190]

Just now, billvon said:

In 2018, he made $4 billion and paid zero in taxes.

He made $4B or his holdings increased in value by $4B? I don't know about you, but when my stocks go up in value I don't pay any taxes on the increase. Only if I sell them at a profit.

[jakee 1,489]

13 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Elon Musk paid more in taxes last year than everyone on this forum will pay in their entire lives.  That doesn’t seem fair to Elon.

Why not? Did it make any noticeable difference to his life?

 

(Normally this would be a rhetorical question, but since you once claimed the Uber rich wouldn’t be able to afford to eat out in restaurants if they had to pay more tax, it’s now a real one.)

[billvon 2,991]

10 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

He made $4B or his holdings increased in value by $4B? 

His holdings increased in value by $4B.
 

Quote

I don't know about you, but when my stocks go up in value I don't pay any taxes on the increase. Only if I sell them at a profit.

Right.  And that's how it works.

A rich person's stock goes up in value.  He now has (say) $4 bilion more.  He does not pay any tax on that.  He THEORETICALLY owes taxes at some point if he sells them - and the amount of tax he pays is the difference between the basis (what he bought the stocks at) and the price the stocks are now.

If rich person needs money they get a loan, generally at rates at or below inflation.  The bank that holds his stock is happy to do this since they have all his money.  It's part of the "service" they provide for wealthy investors.

Then they die.  At that point his accounts fall to his heir.  His stock is re-basised upon inheritance; now no one owes taxes on the money he made.  His heir then sells stocks (tax-free) to pay off his loans.

Voila, no one ever pays taxes on the money that guy made.

(Of course this only works if you are rich enough to pull that off, and have such resources.)

[Phil1111 1,149]

39 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Elon Musk paid more in taxes last year than everyone on this forum will pay in their entire lives.  That doesn’t seem fair to Elon.

You don't know that.

His taxes arose not because he wanted to but because he exercied stock options that were expiring.

• Tesla CEO Elon Musk faces a potential tax bill of more than $10 billion on stock options he was granted in 2012.
• Musk started exercising the options Monday, exercising $2.5 billion in shares and selling $1.1 billion of those exercised options to pay the taxes.
• But he continued to sell additional stock, and it’s likely those sales were unrelated to the stock option exercises he must complete by August. This means future stock sales are likely.

[brenthutch 444]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Why not? Did it make any noticeable difference to his life?

 

(Normally this would be a rhetorical question, but since you once claimed the Uber rich wouldn’t be able to afford to eat out in restaurants if they had to pay more tax, it’s now a real one.)

When did I claim that?  Or are you just making stuff up?

And those are rhetorical questions.

Edited March 30, 2022 by brenthutch

[kallend 2,026]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

His holdings increased in value by $4B.
 

Right.  And that's how it works.

 

Having enough to buy a few senators and congressmen gets you some very favorable laws written.

We have the best government money can buy.

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

When did I claim that?  Or are you just making stuff up?

And those are rhetorical questions.

You mentioned it as a reason not to tax rich people and companies more. As if they couldn’t be taxed and still spend.

Right when you made the hilarious claim that rich people don’t hoard money.

[brenthutch 444]

23 minutes ago, jakee said:

You mentioned it as a reason not to tax rich people and companies more. As if they couldn’t be taxed and still spend.

Right when you made the hilarious claim that rich people don’t hoard money.

No, I oppose taxing cooperations because they pass those taxes on in the form of higher prices, which is a highly regressive tax that hurts poor and working class families.

And no again because wealthy folks don’t hoard their money they invest it.  The Scrooge McDuck money bin only exists in cartoons (and in your head)

 

[jakee 1,489]

8 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

 

And no again because wealthy folks don’t hoard their money they invest it.  The Scrooge McDuck money bin only exists in cartoons (and in your head)

 

It exists in reality because our economic system is so madly skewed towards making rich people richer that many of them simply make money so quickly it’s not even worth the effort to stay on top of investing it. Unfathomably enormous quantities of it simply disappears from circulation. 
 

Just because you are ignorant of that fact (even though I have you sources last time) doesn’t change how laughable it is that you think real life is a cartoon.

[brenthutch 444]

13 minutes ago, jakee said:

It exists in reality because our economic system is so madly skewed towards making rich people richer that many of them simply make money so quickly it’s not even worth the effort to stay on top of investing it. Unfathomably enormous quantities of it simply disappears from circulation. 
 

Just because you are ignorant of that fact (even though I have you sources last time) doesn’t change how laughable it is that you think real life is a cartoon.

My friend, it is you who believe in the Scrooge McDuck model of wealth preservation.  I will give you some examples to help you wrap your brain around how this really works. The billions Musk got from PayPal were invested into Tesla, the billions from Tesla help found Spacex.  Same thing goes for Bezos, Amazon and Blue Origin. 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

6 hours ago, gowlerk said:

That would be because you have failed at turning your income into something that is not earned. Jeff does not earn income. Instead he generates wealth. Wealth is not taxable.

You could do the same thing with a little cleverness, but that's a guess. Everyone wants a simpler tax scheme but that's generally because simple is easier to understand. I like complicated because that means there are way's to beat the system. You know, like joking about only needing to be faster than your buddy, not the bear.

[gowlerk 2,190]

9 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Everyone wants a simpler tax scheme but that's generally because simple is easier to understand.

Everybody does what they can to reduce their taxes without risking jail time. Governments love straight employees because they are addicted to tax withheld at source.

Edited March 30, 2022 by gowlerk