Time to just drop the COVID relief payments...

[billvon 2,990]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

While it might temporarily stimulate the economy it does little good long term.  

It can save people's credit ratings - because they don't have to not pay rent or default on car loans.

It can improve the health of families by allowing them to visit their GP.

It can allow kids to stay in school because now mom doesn't have to work as well.

It can allow people to get their brakes fixed and thus avoid injury or death.

It can allow people to remain in their apartments rather than have to move in with their parents.

Those are all long term goods.  They may not apply to you but rest assured they do apply to others.

[airdvr 210]

Yes, it can do all of those things but in the real world $600 or $1,000 isn't going to have the impact we'd like it to have.  We're 12 months into this now.

[billvon 2,990]

3 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Yes, it can do all of those things but in the real world $600 or $1,000 isn't going to have the impact we'd like it to have.  We're 12 months into this now.

It is going to be too late for some people.

It is going to be too little for some people.

Some people don't need it at all.

But for a LOT of people affected by COVID-19 it will make a big difference.  I can think of half a dozen people down here who were working for restaurants and breweries who are barely hanging on.  For them it will mean another few months of rent.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

I am absolutely on board with increasing the wages of the people who take care of the disabled.  Not certain what compensation package they offer but it only needs to be competitive.

I can say that the only asses I've ever wiped, other than my own were my 2 kids.  I'd love to see you doing it.

I would but with Covid I can't travel. But what a Dad you are!

[kallend 2,026]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

The multiplier effect, developed by Keynes’s student Richar Kahn . . . .

Off topic, but when I lived in Cambridge, the Cambridge phone book listing was, consecutively:

  Kahn, Richard

  Kaldor, Nikolas

  Kallend, John

Kaldor was also a prominent Keynesian economics professor (Cambridge was full of them, of course).

[airdvr 210]

[kallend 2,026]

3 hours ago, airdvr said:

While it might temporarily stimulate the economy it does little good long term.  

 

Actual data suggests the opposite.  Tax cuts for you and your ilk have proven to do less for economic growth than does support for the poor.

[BIGUN 1,307]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

Yes, it can do all of those things but in the real world $600 or $1,000 isn't going to have the impact we'd like it to have.  We're 12 months into this now.

Brother, I have to side with the left on this one. And, in part, you are correct. One-time shot in the arms aren't that great, but it is something. IMO: It should have been $600 - $1,000/month this whole time. Any time there's a recession/depression, the Keynesian Model works. Get money into the hands of the consumers that make less than "X" and they spend. Moving money around is what gets the economy to rebound.  

[Westerly 61]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

For them it will mean another few months of rent.

Name ONE place anywhere in America where $1000 gets you 'a few months of rent'. Unless you're talking about a campsite. Where I live, the average rent is $1000 every two weeks, and that's not for a 4-bedroom house with a view either....

Edited February 3, 2021 by Westerly

[billvon 2,990]

2 minutes ago, Westerly said:

Name ONE place anywhere in America where $1000 gets you 'a few months of rent'. Unless you're talking about a campsite. Where I live, the average rent is $1000 every two weeks, and that's not for a 4-bedroom house with a view either....

Here in San Diego.  There's a woman (former bartender) who is paying $1200 for a (small) apartment, and she's making about $800 a month as a delivery driver.  That means she can hang on to the apartment for two more months with that $1000.  If she eats Ramen, of course.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

15 minutes ago, Westerly said:

Name ONE place anywhere in America where $1000 gets you 'a few months of rent'. Unless you're talking about a campsite. Where I live, the average rent is $1000 every two weeks, and that's not for a 4-bedroom house with a view either....

Then there are those who share rent with roommates. The fact you can only think of people renting entire apartments or houses for themselves is telling.

[Westerly 61]

9 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Then there are those who share rent with roommates. The fact you can only think of people renting entire apartments or houses for themselves is telling.

I am well aware of what a roommate is. I also know that even renting a room is at least $500 a month pretty much just about everywhere.

[DougH 270]

5 hours ago, gowlerk said:

The idea is to prevent long term harm. 

We had multiple years of lack luster growth following the Great Recession. Many economist have blamed that on the push for austerity measures in the US and Globally. I would classify ten years of shitty growth because people pushed politics instead of sound economic policy long term harm.

At the time I was on board with it too.

Borrowing is at an all time low for the US government, more harm is had from doing nothing. It would be like failing to apply a tourniquet because you are going to have to pay down the road to replace the item in your trauma kit. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

1 hour ago, DougH said:

We had multiple years of lack luster growth following the Great Recession. Many economist have blamed that on the push for austerity measures in the US and Globally. I would classify ten years of shitty growth because people pushed politics instead of sound economic policy long term harm.

At the time I was on board with it too.

Borrowing is at an all time low for the US government, more harm is had from doing nothing. It would be like failing to apply a tourniquet because you are going to have to pay down the road to replace the item in your trauma kit. 

Hi Doug,

I am one who really, really wants to keep the national debt as low as possible.  I even support raising taxes to actually pay it down ( blasphemy to most politicians ).  However, these are no where near 'normal times.'  It is time to step up to the plate and do what we can to help our people & our economy.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,990]

7 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

I am one who really, really wants to keep the national debt as low as possible.  I even support raising taxes to actually pay it down ( blasphemy to most politicians ).  However, these are no where near 'normal times.'  It is time to step up to the plate and do what we can to help our people & our economy.

I agree.  We spend far too much money and borrow far too much money.  But if there is ever a time to borrow, it is during a deadly pandemic when the economy is cratering and interest rates are almost zero.

[mistercwood 287]

Guys at what age do I start just operating on the belief that whatever opinion and circumstance I have on a matter is the only one that counts, and get mad at everyone who doesn't immediately agree with me? Asking for a friend.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

17 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

Guys at what age do I start just operating on the belief that whatever opinion and circumstance I have on a matter is the only one that counts, and get mad at everyone who doesn't immediately agree with me? Asking for a friend.

When the totality of your successful life experiences make it so you are able to sleep at night knowing you just made a giant ass of yourself. Sort of, it's like you're a pickle in progress.  Until you're sure you are crunchy and have a bit of snap you are best off staying in the barrel. Hope that helps.