More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[JoeWeber 2,720]

31 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

That’d help. Kind of like pythons in Florida and cats and chickens in Hawaii. Feral hogs of the kind I’m thinking of aren’t the same as the javelina that exist in the Southwest. They’re not native, and they’re bigger and more omnivorous than most native animals

Wendy P. 

For sure. Real feral hogs can be huge, dangerous bastards. But it can never be considered such a problem that private citizens killing them with machine guns from helicopters is either a legitimate sport or necessary solution.

 

 

[yoink 321]

On 7/19/2022 at 11:25 AM, billeisele said:

 

A 50% success rate only reduces gun killings 5%.

GOOD!

5% is better than 0%!

Thats 22,000 people that would have lived last year.

Lets start with something and improve, eh?

Edited July 20, 2022 by yoink

[JoeWeber 2,720]

3 minutes ago, yoink said:

GOOD!

5% is better than 0%!

Lets start with something and improve, eh?

No, there's just nothing that can be done. It's too late, there are already too many guns, too many AR-15's. So, the only thing to do is arm good guys with even better weapons. Thank God for Sig Sauer the winner of the US Army's next generation assault weapon contest. And to celebrate they have already released thousands of the civilian version the MCX-SPEAR at $8K a pop. Now how much good clean fun is this baby doll? I'll let Gen. Mark Milley do the talking: “This is a weapon that could defeat any body armor, any planned body armor that we know of in the future,” then-Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley told the Army Times in 2019. “This is a weapon that can go out at ranges that are unknown today.” Dayum, sport fans, with this baby ain't no hogs nowhere gonna be safe. Hoo-rah!

 

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

7 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

No, there's just nothing that can be done. It's too late, there are already too many guns, too many AR-15's. So, the only thing to do is arm good guys with even better weapons. Thank God for Sig Sauer the winner of the US Army's next generation assault weapon contest. And to celebrate they have already released thousands of the civilian version the MCX-SPEAR at $8K a pop. Now how much good clean fun is this baby doll? I'll let Gen. Mark Milley do the talking: “This is a weapon that could defeat any body armor, any planned body armor that we know of in the future,” then-Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley told the Army Times in 2019. “This is a weapon that can go out at ranges that are unknown today.” Dayum, sport fans, with this baby ain't no hogs nowhere gonna be safe. Hoo-rah!

 

 

Hi Joe,

Re:  Thank God for Sig Sauer the winner of the US Army's next generation assault weapon contest. And to celebrate they have already released thousands of the civilian version the MCX-SPEAR at $8K a pop.

Let the salivating begin.

Jerry Baumchen

[yoink 321]

I really need to transition into gun manufacturing and design.

The money in it is insane.

[Phil1111 1,149]

6 minutes ago, yoink said:

I really need to transition into gun manufacturing and design.

The money in it is insane.

This is the NASCAR sponsored by Daniel Defense which boasts a profit margin of 35%. Daniel Defense, the maker of the gun used in Uvalde, is accused of marketing to teens

This is a recent ad targeting a younger market.

If you're a republican the jump to making big bucks selling AR-15s to 18 year olds is easy.

[billeisele 130]

3 hours ago, yoink said:

GOOD!

5% is better than 0%!

Thats 22,000 people that would have lived last year.

Lets start with something and improve, eh?

Let me assist with the math so you'll have correct info.

Ballpark 37,000 annual gun deaths, 66% are suicide, that leaves 11,000, 500 are accidental discharge and 500 are warranted self-defense.

That leaves 10,000. 90% of those are with pistols so that leaves 10% or 1,000 with rifles. These are statistics from public FBI and CDC sources.

If new laws and regulations on rifles were imposed that were 50% successful they would stop 5% or 500 deaths annually. Not 22,000. And yes, 500 would be good.

The primary point or question being: Why is there so much focus on the AR class of weapon instead of handguns?  Handguns are used 9X more often in gun deaths.

Edited July 21, 2022 by billeisele

[billeisele 130]

22 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

What beyond studies by experts qualify as substantiation for you?

The government does provide border control but does not supply viagra to those admitted. No matter, just what the holy hell does border control control have to  do with your Jurassic Hog problem?

 You'd have been remiss not to trot out this time honored conservative trope. You could argue, and it wouldn't surprise me one iota if you haven't or don't regularly, that if we only observed the constitution more closely and armed every American until they fell down from the weight that it would be cheaper than our expensive government run military. Same with our fire departments etc. etc. etc.

The problem is too many guns and too many of the wrong kind of guns and too many gun lovers whose identities are intertwined with those guns. I'm looking at you, Bill.

Why is it no surprise that there isn't any intelligent answer to the primary questions, repeated below. Just more blathering, baseless accusations and you continue to bring up useless diversions from reality.

What firearms are you concerned about and how do you propose we remove them from society?

What do we do and how do we do it legally to make a material impact on firearm deaths?

[Phil1111 1,149]

12 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Let me assist with the math so you'll have correct info.
 

"The U.S. gun death rate was 10.6 per 100,000 people in 2016, the most recent year in the study, which used a somewhat different methodology from the CDC. That was far higher than in countries such as Canada (2.1 per 100,000) and Australia (1.0), as well as European nations such as France (2.7), Germany (0.9) and Spain (0.6)"

Now you have the correct info.

[gowlerk 2,190]

40 minutes ago, billeisele said:

The primary point or question being: Why is there so much focus on the AR class of weapon instead of handguns?  Handguns are used 9X more often in gun deaths.

FWIW I agree 100%. AR type weapons get a lot of press coverage, but handguns do most of the damage. They are just so darn......handy when someone gets angry.

[billeisele 130]

24 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

"The U.S. gun death rate was 10.6 per 100,000 people in 2016, the most recent year in the study, which used a somewhat different methodology from the CDC. That was far higher than in countries such as Canada (2.1 per 100,000) and Australia (1.0), as well as European nations such as France (2.7), Germany (0.9) and Spain (0.6)"

Now you have the correct info.

Good info but I was talking about gun deaths. No question that mass shootings have increased.

The same PEW article that has your graph provides similar stats to what I posted. Below is FBI stats over a 4-yr period for homicides. They don't included suicides.

Weapons	2015	2016	2017	2018	2019
Total	13,847	15,355	15,206	14,446	13,927
Total firearms:	9,143	10,398	11,014	10,445	10,258
Handguns	6,194	6,778	7,052	6,683	6,368
Rifles	215	300	389	305	364
Shotguns	248	247	263	237	200
Other guns	152	172	178	164	45
Firearms, type not stated	2,334	2,901	3,132	3,056	3,281

[billeisele 130]

2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

FWIW I agree 100%. AR type weapons get a lot of press coverage, but handguns do most of the damage. They are just so darn......handy when someone gets angry.

Yep. Doing a lot of reading on this The most common homicide is one-on-one with a handgun. Alcohol and arguing is a bad combination. Throw in gang violence and it's a big problem.  

[Phil1111 1,149]

3 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Yep. Doing a lot of reading on this The most common homicide is one-on-one with a handgun. Alcohol and arguing is a bad combination. Throw in gang violence and it's a big problem.  

You're forgetting the financial cost to Americans of all those guns.

[gowlerk 2,190]

214 billion "quality of life"? I'll just take a grain or two of salt with that.

 

[grimmie 186]

I spent just over thirty years in the fire service.

I have treated about 150 shooting victims, from domestic violence, armed robberies, police shootings, drive by, gang party shootouts, planned murders and self inflicted.

 

Only a handful were shotgun or rifles.

 

The most common weapon was a small caliber handgun. .22, .25. .38.

 

Drive bys were larger caliber hand guns.

 

One gang battle was with AK 47s. 
 

Most of it never made the news.

 

We even had the fire trucks shot at. One resident was gunned down right in front of our firehouse. A few times we were met with weapon wielding people. And more than once the shooting started and we scrambled under the fire engine for cover.

 

A few times the SWAT team gave us cover so we could drag a gunshot victim to the ambulance. 
 

We all were issued bullet proof vests.

 

Running into burning buildings always seemed way safer to me!

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by grimmie

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

52 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Why is it no surprise that there isn't any intelligent answer to the primary questions, repeated below. Just more blathering, baseless accusations and you continue to bring up useless diversions from reality.

What firearms are you concerned about and how do you propose we remove them from society?

What do we do and how do we do it legally to make a material impact on firearm deaths?

Hi Bill,

I've had it with the old, 'Hey, look over here,' gambit of the GOP; including you.

You know damn well we are talking about gun killings from Columbine to Uvalde; and nothing else.

So, quit with the handgun deaths.

My neighbor, shooting his wife for having an affair with his best friend, is not the issue here.

My 8-yr old granddaughter possibly getting killed while sitting in class is.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 2,190]

1 minute ago, grimmie said:

Running into burning buildings always seemed way safer to me!

What city did you serve in?

[gowlerk 2,190]

1 minute ago, JerryBaumchen said:

My 8-yr old granddaughter possibly getting killed while sitting in class is.

As horrible as that possibility is it represents only the very tippy top of the excess firearm problem in America. And those classroom shooting could be easily done with a handgun if ARs were not available.

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

7 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

As horrible as that possibility is it represents only the very tippy top of the excess firearm problem in America. And those classroom shooting could be easily done with a handgun if ARs were not available.

HI ken,

But they were not.

Jerry Baumchen

[grimmie 186]

Ontario, California 

It was very violent in the early to mid 80s there.

The city has done a great job cleaning it up. There is even a wind tunnel there now and an AHL hockey team. Things I never could have imagined back in the day!

 

However, the city still has its moments

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-03-18/ontario-motel-shooting-suspect-sought?_amp=true

Edited July 21, 2022 by grimmie

[gowlerk 2,190]

6 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

HI ken,

But they were not.

Jerry Baumchen

They certainly have been, and often.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-r-0057.htm

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

Although there is a trend to semi-auto rifles.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/07/12/mass-shootings-weapons-legal-what-to-know/7814081001/

Edited July 21, 2022 by gowlerk

[JoeWeber 2,720]

41 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

I've had it with the old, 'Hey, look over here,' gambit of the GOP; including you.

You know damn well we are talking about gun killings from Columbine to Uvalde; and nothing else.

So, quit with the handgun deaths.

My neighbor, shooting his wife for having an affair with his best friend, is not the issue here.

My 8-yr old granddaughter possibly getting killed while sitting in class is.

Jerry Baumchen

Spot on, Jerry. The Gunhugging transammosexuals will never see a path forward that does not include more guns, and more dangerous guns, for all. Earlier in the thread Bill wrote: "Banning high cap mags may have no impact." So much to unpack there, none of which will ever resonate with BillE, I'm now convinced. There's the "high cap mags" for starters. All just local gun guy talk he'd say, I'm sure, not realizing that it's a neutralizing (I'd argue neuralizing) bit of brainwashing he's been subjected to. In fact, they are High Capacity Magazines for guns used to mass murder people in the current discussion. Then there is the "may have no impact" toss out for the purpose of misdirection.  Of course the banning of high capacity magazines won't eliminate their use tomorrow but it's a real and fair start. Too bad the indoctrinated never give an inch gun crowd believes they can never give an inch. Gun Loving is a religion and you cannot argue people out of a religion. 

 

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Spot on, Jerry. The Gunhugging transammosexuals will never see a path forward that does not include more guns, and more dangerous guns, for all. Earlier in the thread Bill wrote: "Banning high cap mags may have no impact." So much to unpack there, none of which will ever resonate with BillE, I'm now convinced. There's the "high cap mags" for starters. All just local gun guy talk he'd say, I'm sure, not realizing that it's a neutralizing (I'd argue neuralizing) bit of brainwashing he's been subjected to. In fact, they are High Capacity Magazines for guns used to mass murder people in the current discussion. Then there is the "may have no impact" toss out for the purpose of misdirection.  Of course the banning of high capacity magazines won't eliminate their use tomorrow but it's a real and fair start. Too bad the indoctrinated never give an inch gun crowd believes they can never give an inch. Gun Loving is a religion and you cannot argue people out of a religion. 

 

 

Hi Joe,

Re:  There's the "high cap mags" for starters.

And here is another starter:  Oregonians will get to vote in November on measure bolstering gun safety, banning high-capacity magazines - OPB

I know it will get my vote.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,720]

2 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

Re:  There's the "high cap mags" for starters.

And here is another starter:  Oregonians will get to vote in November on measure bolstering gun safety, banning high-capacity magazines - OPB

I know it will get my vote.

Jerry Baumchen

Me too. We're lucky here. 

[kallend 2,026]

On 7/19/2022 at 12:06 AM, billeisele said:

Greenwood IN mall shooting. Hooray for a good guy.

"The real hero of the day is the citizen that was lawfully carrying a firearm in that food court and was able to stop the shooter almost as soon as he began," Greenwood Police Chief Jim Ison said.

So last weekend in USA:

good guys with guns - 1

bad guys with guns - 15