More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[turtlespeed 220]

1 minute ago, SkyDekker said:

Yeah, why aren't soldiers allowed to carry firearms on military bases?

Can't trust trained patriots to carry firearms?

MP and Shore Patrol are soldiers, No?

Why are there still shooting on a military base if that works so well?

Edited December 24, 2024 by turtlespeed

[SkyDekker 1,465]

2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

MP and Shore Patrol are soldiers, No?

Why are there still shooting on a military base if that works so well?

Why do you think only 100% effective means success? Pretty dumb.

So on base the police have guns and the "population" does not and shootings are exceedingly rare.

General public, police have guns, the "population" has guns and shootings are exceedingly frequent.

Turtle: more guns is the answer.

lol

[turtlespeed 220]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

Why do you think only 100% effective means success? Pretty dumb.

So on base the police have guns and the "population" does not and shootings are exceedingly rare.

General public, police have guns, the "population" has guns and shootings are exceedingly frequent.

Turtle: more guns is the answer.

lol

It's obvious to me that you would prefer a police state.  I like my freedom.

Nothing is 100%, usually.  But a 10% effectiveness is a waste of time.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

It's obvious to me that you would prefer a police state.  I like my freedom.

Nothing is 100%, usually.  But a 10% effectiveness is a waste of time.

I think there is a lot of room between: almost no controls around the acquisition and carry of firearms and nobody is allowed to have firearms.

A police state is not the middle point there. I strongly believe in the right to own firearms. I also strongly believe that it comes with a mountain of responsibilities. Clearly the only way to enforce those responsibilities is to legislate them. You have shown not to be able to do it by yourself and children and families are dying as a result of that.

[turtlespeed 220]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

You have shown not to be able to do it by yourself and children and families are dying as a result of that.

How have I shown that?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

6 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

How have I shown that?

The world is greater than you, turtle. Sometimes you refers to a much larger group.

But you specifically keep fighting against, or certainly not supporting restrictions and regulations around firearms and people are dying as a result of it.

[wmw999 2,444]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

I guess I just don't understand the mind set of someone that wouldnt defend their family, or themselves.

I wonder if its because they have never had to go through a situation that requires it, injury and/or death would result if they didn't.

You didn't say family or self -- you said stuff. There's a big difference. And generally that's where it stops. In 70 years of living in two countries and several large cities, I've never been mugged. I'm female, blonde, and not really tall. And it's not like I'm uber-careful. Yes, it happens, but I'll save my preparation for things with a higher likelihood.

Wendy P.

[winsor 236]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

It says that in general people are worth more than stuff. Even my stuff. 

Wendy P.

Some people more than others.

[kallend 2,026]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

How have I shown that?

You have shown that you are far more concerned with your rights to own a plaything that may possibly help in a hypothetical emergency (and may equally likely result in getting you or your family killed), than you are with the right to life of tens of thousands of Americans who die each year due to inadequate gun laws.  Americans are 46 times more likely to be shot dead than, say British or Spanish residents.

Seems pretty selfish to me.

[turtlespeed 220]

22 minutes ago, kallend said:

You have shown that you are far more concerned with your rights to own a plaything that may possibly help in a hypothetical emergency (and may equally likely result in getting you or your family killed), than you are with the right to life of tens of thousands of Americans who die each year due to inadequate gun laws.  Americans are 46 times more likely to be shot dead than, say British or Spanish residents.

Seems pretty selfish to me.

I suppose you should have lived my life then.

Not everything fits in your box.

Its pretty selfish of you to want to take the thing away that has saved my life more than twice.

 

ETA: If it wouldn't end in your death, or harm, I would love to have seen you in those situations, and be unarmed.  Those circumstances have a tendency to change your outlook VERY quickly.

Edited December 24, 2024 by turtlespeed

[winsor 236]

24 minutes ago, kallend said:

You have shown that you are far more concerned with your rights to own a plaything that may possibly help in a hypothetical emergency (and may equally likely result in getting you or your family killed), than you are with the right to life of tens of thousands of Americans who die each year due to inadequate gun laws.  Americans are 46 times more likely to be shot dead than, say British or Spanish residents.

Seems pretty selfish to me.

Again, in my demographic cohort I'm in no greater danger than in Great Britain or Spain.

There are groups that are 100 times more likely to get shot, and I generally stay clear of them.

[BIGUN 1,307]

 

43 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

If it wouldn't end in your death, or harm, I would love to have seen you in those situations, and be unarmed.  Those circumstances have a tendency to change your outlook VERY quickly.

LIKE - High. School. Children. 

[turtlespeed 220]

Just now, BIGUN said:

 

LIKE - High. School. Children. 

LIKE - Real. Life. Experiences.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 hour ago, winsor said:

Again, in my demographic cohort I'm in no greater danger than in Great Britain or Spain.

There are groups that are 100 times more likely to get shot, and I generally stay clear of them.

again excluding that little run in with guns and the law I am supposing. Cause that was just a giant misunderstanding.

 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

37 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

LIKE - Real. Life. Experiences.

Good for you. I am happy that worked out for you.

Now in the grand balance of things: are you worth the life of 10,000 children?

If your death saved the lives of 10,000 children, would you sacrifice your life?

[billvon 2,990]

1 hour ago, winsor said:

Again, in my demographic cohort I'm in no greater danger than in Great Britain or Spain.

I think "people convicted of gun crimes" is a fairly dangerous cohort.

[billvon 2,990]

4 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

What does it say about you if you arent willing to do violence to protect what's yours?

What does it say about your side, that the first thing you think of (if you're about to lose stuff that's yours) is how to best kill someone?

Quote

I like my freedom.

I imagine BillyVance's wife and kids liked theirs as well. 

[winsor 236]

44 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

again excluding that little run in with guns and the law I am supposing. Cause that was just a giant misunderstanding.

 

Thank jebus you've done your homework.  I was worried there for a moment.

If you ever get SWATed, I hope you get through it without being shot as well.

 

Edited December 24, 2024 by winsor

[BIGUN 1,307]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

LIKE - Real. Life. Experiences.

And what of the real life experiences of high school children? Since Columbine there have been over 640 children killed or injured in school shootings.  

You're not going to beat me up about real life expereinces, Brother. I have them. And, one experience I have is coming back to the US and not feeling like I had to have a gun on my hip, or fear that children would die, or fear that mine could die every time I got a page from the school.

P.S. Hers and her school friends favorite hang out had a shooting the sunday before last.  Enough is enough. 

[turtlespeed 220]

48 minutes ago, billvon said:

What does it say about your side, that the first thing you think of (if you're about to lose stuff that's yours) is how to best kill someone?

I imagine BillyVance's wife and kids liked theirs as well. 

Firstly, defending isn't necessarily killing.  The FIRST thing I think of is situational awareness, and a contigency plan.  

As far as Billy is concened, I have no idea what their situation was, do you? 

What -DO- you imagine?  Please describe in detail your imaginings wrt Billy and his wife and two daughters.  I'm jonesing to hear this.

 

[billvon 2,990]

6 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

The FIRST thing I think of is situational awareness, and a contigency plan.  

Glad to hear you reconsidering.

Quote

As far as Billy is concened, I have no idea what their situation was, do you?

We have a sense of what his situation was (at least WRT to gun ownership) from what he posted here.  He regularly posted about how he will use his guns to defend his family; one of his biggest fears was to "not have a gun and need one to save your life/others from harm."  He regularly mocked people who were concerned about improper use of guns: "just ignore every thread he posts about kids shooting mothers in the head kind of shit."  And of course he explained that only nutso people might harm their families with guns: "every country has their nutbags that should not get their hands on a gun."

In other words, his attitude was very similar to yours.

We know that one day he decided to kill his two teenage daughters, his wife and then himself.  I don't really care what his situation was; there is no "situation" that justifies murdering your children and your wife, and I am sure you would agree.  But since he had the means, the mass murder he carried out was accomplished quickly and easily.

No gun owner here thinks they will ever do that, of course.  Billy certainly didn't.  But we know that some do anyway.  And that's why, if you own a gun, your family is more likely to be killed by a gun.

 

[turtlespeed 220]

3 minutes ago, billvon said:

  And that's why, if you own a gun, your family is more likely to be killed by a gun.

 

Can't fault your logic on that.

You know what though, odds of a new born baby stabbing you with a knife may not be very high, but its never zero.

But I see what you are saying.  For my family, myself, and anyone at my house at least, its the right thing to do though.

You can choose differently.  Its a great country!

Your right is to be able to choose differently.

My right is to do what I'm doing.

[kallend 2,026]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

 

My right is to do what I'm doing.

Selfish, as stated previously.

[normiss 798]

22 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

No. Criminality leads to higher gun crime and homicide rates. The 2nd Amendment protects my right, a law abiding citizen, to keep and bear arms.

"Well regulated"

[Hissone 6]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

And what of the real life experiences of high school children? Since Columbine there have been over 640 children killed or injured in school shootings.  

You're not going to beat me up about real life expereinces, Brother. I have them. And, one experience I have is coming back to the US and not feeling like I had to have a gun on my hip, or fear that children would die, or fear that mine could die every time I got a page from the school.

P.S. Hers and her school friends favorite hang out had a shooting the sunday before last.  Enough is enough. 

I’m glad you feel no need to carry a gun I in no way want anyone to keep you from doing exactly that. I just want the same no one trying to keep my from concealed carrying wherever i want. You mentioned high school students.  Have you ever put on boots, kevlar, and a uniform to protect them?