More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[Hissone 6]

4 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Well, they can under the NFA. So, if we agree the NFA is necessary for those weapons, why not an "NFA" for other weapons?

That is the battle cry, but was not the original premise. First, it wasn't until recently the 20th century that someone tied the the 2A to the "goverment that turned tyrannical." and told people that Jefferson said it.

What Jefferson was speaking about was the Public School Act. 

" . . . perverted it into tyranny; and it is believed that the most effectual means of preventing this would be, to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds of the people at large . . ."

https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/bill-more-general-diffusion-knowledge/ 

EDIT: Found it. https://www.cnn.com/2013/01/11/opinion/jefferson-fake-gun-quotation/index.html 

What advantage other than more gun control would anther NFA have? 

[Hissone 6]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

And now it's under 250 despite having a much higher population.

Regardless of any other considerations, does it give you even a moment's pause to learn that the reality of the situation is the opposite of what you thought it was?

I’m not really sure what you are asking. Since the population has increased in Australia and the homicides have went from around 400 a year to around 250 do i think that is a success in Australia? Sure.  Do i think the US should adopt something similar absolutely not.  I have no interest   in a lawmaker from DC who is guarded by the very weapons they want to ban telling me what type of gun i should be allowed to own and carry. 

[billvon 2,990]

19 minutes ago, Hissone said:

in a lawmaker from DC who is guarded by the very weapons they want to ban telling me what type of gun i should be allowed to own and carry. 

Lawmakers in DC are also protected by Stinger missile emplacements and F-18's in nearby air wings.  I assume you do not want anyone who wants one to be able to wield them.

[Hissone 6]

8 minutes ago, billvon said:

Lawmakers in DC are also protected by Stinger missile emplacements and F-18's in nearby air wings.  I assume you do not want anyone who wants one to be able to wield them.

I don’t understand your point i could be protected by those same military weapons if the conditions presented itself. I’m referring to the capital police and secret service that are assigned to protect people in congress.  They carry the weapons most commonly referenced in assault weapons bans yet the most outspoken lawmakers that are anti gun are surround by them. An example if your house were being broken into and you were to call the capital police to protect you like they do members of congress what do you think their response time would be? 

[tkhayes 348]

8 hours ago, Hissone said:

I strongly disagree with any government database to track guns. Any type of license be required to purchase guns other than ID to prove age.  I agree with background checks when you purchase a gun and training requirements to get a concealed carry permit.  I’m probably almost polar opposite of these suggestions. I belive the general public should be able to obtain and keep light infantry weaponry like fully automatic machine guns, SAW, 240s, after background checks.  The point of the second amendment is to be able to fight a government that turned tyrannical. In order to do that the general population should have similar weapons. 

A background check is a form of “a license”

And I never suggested licensing anyway. The reason you have a firearms database is because a lot of people like to talk about getting control of “illegal guns“ there is no such thing as an illegal gun. Remington, Glock, Smith & Wesson don’t have an assembly line somewhere making illegal guns to fund to criminals.You track the guns so that you know where they are, and when they fall into the hands of criminals, you actually have a paper trail. We eliminate an enormous part of the problem.and if you perform the rest of my idea, all gun sales go through an escrow like law-enforcement, and that would eliminate overtime, millions and millions of guns from falling into the hands of criminals 

 

 

 

[BIGUN 1,306]

7 hours ago, Hissone said:

What advantage other than more gun control would anther NFA have? 

Responsibility.

[nigel99 471]

13 hours ago, Hissone said:

I strongly disagree with any government database to track guns. Any type of license be required to purchase guns other than ID to prove age.  I agree with background checks when you purchase a gun and training requirements to get a concealed carry permit.  I’m probably almost polar opposite of these suggestions. I belive the general public should be able to obtain and keep light infantry weaponry like fully automatic machine guns, SAW, 240s, after background checks.  The point of the second amendment is to be able to fight a government that turned tyrannical. In order to do that the general population should have similar weapons. 

If your argument is to fight a government turned tyrannical you’re off your meds to think an AR15 is going to protect you from an Apache, F22 or F35 and the multitude of other weapons available to the military.

It’s amusing to see the fuss about Australia and guns. I’ll admit I don’t like some of the latest laws in my state which is the strictest, but we can still own guns, there are 5 locked in my son’s bedroom down the hall. 

I don’t think you’re open to facts, but having untrained or poorly trained people out and about with firearms is a recipe for disaster. Telling me that a few hours training is enough  without currency and practice is enough to be safe in a high stakes situation , is like expecting an AFT student to land a sub 100 cross brace canopy. 

[Hissone 6]

2 hours ago, nigel99 said:

If your argument is to fight a government turned tyrannical you’re off your meds to think an AR15 is going to protect you from an Apache, F22 or F35 and the multitude of other weapons available to the military.

It’s amusing to see the fuss about Australia and guns. I’ll admit I don’t like some of the latest laws in my state which is the strictest, but we can still own guns, there are 5 locked in my son’s bedroom down the hall. 

I don’t think you’re open to facts, but having untrained or poorly trained people out and about with firearms is a recipe for disaster. Telling me that a few hours training is enough  without currency and practice is enough to be safe in a high stakes situation , is like expecting an AFT student to land a sub 100 cross brace canopy. 

Oh you will not find a bigger advocate than me that people should receive training and practice that training regularly if you plan on carrying guns. I simply don’t want the government to require it to purchase a gun. 

Just curious can you carry a concealed pistol in the area where you live? I live in South Carolina. A huge part of the population own and carry guns. Being a police officer for 30 years taught me if you are not suicidal and if you stay away from know gang areas the odds of getting in a shooting drop astronomically.  The overwhelming deaths by firearms in the US are suicides and gang shootings in government housing projects in larger cities. 

I in no way ever suggested you could fight off a military attack with an AR-15. 
  

 

[BIGUN 1,306]

9 minutes ago, Hissone said:

Being a police officer for 30 years taught me if you are not suicidal and if you stay away from know gang areas the odds of getting in a shooting drop astronomically.  

Anecdotal, not statistical.

 

10 minutes ago, Hissone said:

Oh you will not find a bigger advocate than me that people should receive training and practice that training regularly if you plan on carrying guns. I simply don’t want the government to require it to purchase a gun. 

This makes no sense to me.  

[nigel99 471]

54 minutes ago, Hissone said:

Oh you will not find a bigger advocate than me that people should receive training and practice that training regularly if you plan on carrying guns. I simply don’t want the government to require it to purchase a gun. 

I in no way ever suggested you could fight off a military attack with an AR-15. 
  

 

But you’re against any form of regulation, so you’re not really an advocate. It’s an optional extra.

Well the 2nd amendment argument against the government is simply tripping. If the government truly goes bad the military will either be there against the government or enforcing for the government. 

[kallend 2,026]

1 hour ago, Hissone said:

Oh you will not find a bigger advocate than me that people should receive training and practice that training regularly if you plan on carrying guns. I simply don’t want the government to require it to purchase a gun. 

 

 

So you would you go about enforcing this?  Rely on people doing it voluntarily?  REALLY?

[Hissone 6]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Anecdotal, not statistical.

 

This makes no sense to me.  

What makes no sense? A guy telling gun owners they need to invest their own time and money in training how to survive a violent attack.   Also I think what i stated is more than anecdotal. Gang murders make up around 13% of homicides in the US and suicides make up around 55% of all gun deaths.  Just those two categories make up a big portion of gun deaths in the US. Or am i missing something. 

[Hissone 6]

2 hours ago, nigel99 said:

But you’re against any form of regulation, so you’re not really an advocate. It’s an optional extra.

Well the 2nd amendment argument against the government is simply tripping. If the government truly goes bad the military will either be there against the government or enforcing for the government. 

Against any form of regulation? Have you seen any of the regulations already imposed by the Federal Government alone? The Brady handgun violence prevention act, Firearms owners protection act, Gun control act of 1968, Bipartisan Safer Communities act, Gun Free school zone of 1990, National Firearms Act, NICS Improvements Act, Undetectable firearms act, There are many more. You cannot purchase a handgun if you are under 21. You cannot purchase a gun if you are addicted to drugs or alcohol, are a convicted felon, if you have been adjudicated as mentally ill, if you have been convicted of Domestic violence, If you are an illegal alien. We have also had assault weapons bans in the past which was actually in effect when the Columbine Massacre occurred.  So the notion that guns are not already regulated in the US is laughable. 

[BIGUN 1,306]

5 hours ago, Hissone said:

What makes no sense?

Advocating for training, but you don't want legislation. How's the advocating working so for? Training to drive before getting a driver's license is legislated. 

5 hours ago, Hissone said:

Or am i missing something. 

Dead children. Firearms are the leading cause of death for children and teens in the US.

[Hissone 6]

44 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Advocating for training, but you don't want legislation. How's the advocating working so for? Training to drive before getting a driver's license is legislated. 

Dead children. Firearms are the leading cause of death for children and teens in the US.

No im not missing dead children. I have seen more than most people.  So the teens being killed by guns kinda backs up what i said earlier about gang related deaths being such a large portion of murders in the US.

The advocating isn’t going great.  Unfortunately training is very expensive and time consuming.  My group ( law enforcement) are actually some of the worst to convince they need more training on their own outside the dept. I have gotten a few interested in competition shooting which helps immensely. 

Edited December 26, 2024 by Hissone

[BIGUN 1,306]

1 hour ago, Hissone said:

So the teens being killed by guns kinda backs up what i said earlier about gang related deaths being such a large portion of murders in the US.

The advocating isn’t going great.

You sound like someone with whom to converse, break bread and have a beer. All of my postings haven't been about gun control bills, but about gun responsibility. This way is not working. As a nation we can and should do better. I wish you well.  

[Hissone 6]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

You sound like someone with whom to converse, break bread and have a beer. All of my postings haven't been about gun control bills, but about gun responsibility. This way is not working. As a nation we can and should do better. I wish you well.  

I agree this way is not working and i’m so tired of hearing about more killings everyday. I was a school resource officer the day after the Parkland FL massacre. One of my Marine buddies son was in Stoneman Douglas Highschool during the shooting it was an absolute nightmare. 

I wish you well also my friend i love a spirited discussion. I’m planning my next jump. After my first jump i had to have quadruple bypass surgery and my chest is almost healed up enough to jump again. 

[turtlespeed 220]

On 12/24/2024 at 12:28 PM, billvon said:

Glad to hear you reconsidering.

My mind is always open for change.

Just because the people here don't think it changes enough, or changes the way they want it to, doesn't mean its not open.

They should try it.  It's liberating.

 

 

[tkhayes 348]

On 12/26/2024 at 6:14 AM, Hissone said:

Oh you will not find a bigger advocate than me that people should receive training and practice that training regularly if you plan on carrying guns. I simply don’t want the government to require it to purchase a gun. 

Just curious can you carry a concealed pistol in the area where you live? I live in South Carolina. A huge part of the population own and carry guns. Being a police officer for 30 years taught me if you are not suicidal and if you stay away from know gang areas the odds of getting in a shooting drop astronomically.  The overwhelming deaths by firearms in the US are suicides and gang shootings in government housing projects in larger cities. 

I in no way ever suggested you could fight off a military attack with an AR-15. 
  

 

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/center-for-gun-violence-solutions/south-carolina
no mention of gangs. Everything else looks like everywhere else. You like to blame but are pretty short on any ideas for improvement other than ‘responsibilities’ which are only legislated through effective gun laws

how do you reduce the death and shooting rates of children in SC? I mean other than moving the goalposts again and talking about gangs? And you make it sound like gang shootings and a suicides do not matter

btw I will hold you to providing some data for your claims of gang shootings leading the issue

[billvon 2,990]

On 12/25/2024 at 5:32 PM, Hissone said:

I don’t understand your point i could be protected by those same military weapons if the conditions presented itself.

Absolutely.

But above you sre not saying that you want to be protected by the same weapons protecting DC politicians.  You want to CARRY those weapons.  So I am asking you if you feel that you should be allowed to carry Stinger missiles, or fly civilian F-18s armed with air-to-ground missiles for personal protection - or if it is OK to have some limits on what private citizens can own and carry.

[Hissone 6]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

Absolutely.

But above you sre not saying that you want to be protected by the same weapons protecting DC politicians.  You want to CARRY those weapons.  So I am asking you if you feel that you should be allowed to carry Stinger missiles, or fly civilian F-18s armed with air-to-ground missiles for personal protection - or if it is OK to have some limits on what private citizens can own and carry.

No i don’t want a stinger missile or an F-18 or ICBM. I don’t know any people that are calling for that when gun control discussions come up. I simply want to be able to carry what i want. My everyday carry is a G19 with an extra mag, an Sig 365 pocket carry and a AR -15 in my vehicle with multiple magazines. I keep a medical trauma kit on me all the time also. I have used the medical kit many times for  crashes i have driven up on.  I don’t think that is anything crazy to carry. You seem to think there are no limits on how Americans can posses and carry guns there are many restrictions already.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Hissone

[JerryBaumchen 1,360]

53 minutes ago, Hissone said:

No i don’t want a stinger missile or an F-18 or ICBM. I don’t know any people that are calling for that when gun control discussions come up. I simply want to be able to carry what i want. My everyday carry is a G19 with an extra mag, an Sig 365 pocket carry and a AR -15 in my vehicle with multiple magazines. I keep a medical trauma kit on me all the time also. I have used the medical kit many times for  crashes i have driven up on.  I don’t think that is anything crazy to carry. You seem to think there are no limits on how Americans can posses and carry guns there are many restrictions already.

Hi H,

Re:   I simply want to be able to carry what i want.

And, what about the people who do not want you to be able to do that?

Or, is that they don't count?

Jerry Baumchen

 

[Hissone 6]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi H,

Re:   I simply want to be able to carry what i want.

And, what about the people who do not want you to be able to do that?

Or, is that they don't count?

Jerry Baumchen

 

Fist i’m curious specifically  why they wouldn’t want me to carry those things other than they don’t like guns. I don’t like country music but i in no way want to tell someone they cannot listen to it.  I’m not a criminal, i’m a retired cop. I’m actually who you would want in an area where a violent attack may happen with training and these weapons.

[tkhayes 348]

2 hours ago, Hissone said:

No i don’t want a stinger missile or an F-18 or ICBM. I don’t know any people that are calling for that when gun control discussions come up. I simply want to be able to carry what i want. My everyday carry is a G19 with an extra mag, an Sig 365 pocket carry and a AR -15 in my vehicle with multiple magazines. I keep a medical trauma kit on me all the time also. I have used the medical kit many times for  crashes i have driven up on.  I don’t think that is anything crazy to carry. You seem to think there are no limits on how Americans can posses and carry guns there are many restrictions already.

You don’t know any people that are calling for Stingers but you just want to be able to carry whatever you want?

 

we can fucking hear you here right?

[tkhayes 348]

24 minutes ago, Hissone said:

Fist i’m curious specifically  why they wouldn’t want me to carry those things other than they don’t like guns. I don’t like country music but i in no way want to tell someone they cannot listen to it.  I’m not a criminal, i’m a retired cop. I’m actually who you would want in an area where a violent attack may happen with training and these weapons.You are for training, just not govt mandated training. You are for limits on guns but not whatever you want to carry

we can still hear you are you sound like a gun nut

Edited December 28, 2024 by tkhayes