More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[gowlerk 2,190]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

 

An active shooter shouldn't even make it on the school grounds before getting dumped. 

That is what you think the answer is? America is a strange society in some ways. And the strangest part is that you probably really believe that things could be improved by arranging some method of "dumping" the threat. Maybe you could explain just what you mean by "dumped", but I expect you won't.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

Just now, gowlerk said:

That is what you think the answer is? America is a strange society in some ways. And the strangest part is that you probably really believe that things could be improved by arranging some method of "dumping" the threat. Maybe you could explain just what you mean by "dumped", but I expect you won't.

Shot dead. But you're very right about how screwed up we are when the ostensible gun sensible and rational among us pop off with a shoot the fuckers outside the school solution.

[gowlerk 2,190]

7 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Shot dead. But you're very right about how screwed up we are when the ostensible gun sensible and rational among us pop off with a shoot the fuckers outside the school solution.

If only they had the decency to announce their plan in advance. But no, the dirty bastards keep sneaking around and taking advance of the element of surprise. Of course the only sensible thing is well armed sentries with military discipline and ready backup available at all vulnerable points. Like elementary schools and kindergartens and such. It should be easy. There are only about 115,000 schools in the US. And they are mostly closed on weekends so the personnel could be assigned to places of worship as well.  

[kallend 2,026]

Given the recent SCOTUS tilt towards consistency with historical tradition (Bruen, 2022), I'm all in favor of everyone being allowed to own a muzzle loading musket.

Other guns, not so much.

 

[BIGUN 1,297]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

Uvalde demonstrated, even armed resource officers, and armed populace and armed fast-response police are not sufficient to stop a determined active shooter.

We agree, Bill. 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

Just now, BIGUN said:

We agree, Bill. 

So then how are you going to dump them? Or was that just sayin’?

[BIGUN 1,297]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

And the strangest part is that you probably really believe that things could be improved by arranging some method of "dumping" the threat. Maybe you could explain just what you mean by "dumped", but I expect you won't.

You coming to hurt children. You die. 

[gowlerk 2,190]

Just now, BIGUN said:

You coming to hurt children. You die. 

Yes, they do die. But usually not before they accomplish at least part of their mission. So your tough talk is just tough talk. May as well be thoughts and prayers for all the good it does.

[BIGUN 1,297]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

Yes, they do die. But usually not before they accomplish at least part of their mission. So your tough talk is just tough talk. May as well be thoughts and prayers for all the good it does.

I'm responding to the snarky thing 

[gowlerk 2,190]

47 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I'm responding to the snarky thing 

I’m responding to the idea that better protection for schools could be a solution.

[billvon 2,989]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

You coming to hurt children. You die. 

I agree that would be a great outcome.  Unfortunately, short of automated sentry guns, a permanent police garrison at schools or relocating schools inside prisons or similar well guarded facilities, achieving that has proven to be difficult.

I would note that the easiest way to have prevented the Uvalde massacre would have been fixing the door.

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

31 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I’m responding to the idea that better protection for schools could be a solution.

Hi Ken,

And, maybe cops who are not afraid.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 2,190]

6 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

And, maybe cops who are not afraid.

Jerry Baumchen

Police have good reason to be afraid. Perhaps politicians who aren't afraid may be the longer term answer.

[BIGUN 1,297]

10 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I’m responding to the idea that better protection for schools could be a solution.

I meant to say, "not" responding. You want to have a conversation, let's do that, but leave the jabs elsewhere. To your point, we had this discussion after the pussies at Uvalde didn't respond in time.  They could have saved many and I don't care what they said . . . they fucking stood there and listened while children died. We all saw the video. They should have been dead before those children. 

We have enough money to help Ukraine, we have enough money to protect our future.  

Edited June 26, 2024 by BIGUN

[JoeWeber 2,720]

4 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I meant to say, "not" responding. You want to have a conversation, let's do that, but leave the jabs elsewhere. To your point, we had this discussion after the pussies at Uvalde didn't respond in time.  They could have saved many and I don't care what they said . . . they fucking stood there and listened while children died. We all saw the video. They should have been dead before those children. 

We have enough money to help Ukraine, we have enough money to protect our future.  

Ken can well speak to himself but I am guessing he'd agree it's not money we're short of. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

8 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I meant to say, "not" responding. You want to have a conversation, let's do that, but leave the jabs elsewhere. To your point, we had this discussion after the pussies at Uvalde didn't respond in time.  They could have saved many and I don't care what they said . . . they fucking stood there and listened while children died. We all saw the video. They should have been dead before those children. 

We have enough money to help Ukraine, we have enough money to protect our future.  

Hi Keith,

Re:   the pussies at Uvalde didn't respond in time.  They could have saved many and I don't care what they said . . . they fucking stood there and listened while children died.

I know that you served in the military, as I did.  When I took the oath, to enlist, there was a part that said something about ' be willing to give my life in defense of my country.'

I hesitated before I said that part.  However, I never forgot it all the time I was in.

We both know, that in a military action, sometimes good people have to die for the survival of the rest of us.

I consider being a LEO the same thing.  When you take that job, you must accept that you might die in the line of duty.

As you said, the pussies at Uvalde failed everyone.

End of rant,

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,489]

8 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I meant to say, "not" responding. You want to have a conversation, let's do that, but leave the jabs elsewhere. To your point, we had this discussion after the pussies at Uvalde didn't respond in time.  They could have saved many and I don't care what they said . . . they fucking stood there and listened while children died. We all saw the video. They should have been dead before those children. 

We have enough money to help Ukraine, we have enough money to protect our future.  

Sure, but what are we saying here? You have armed guards with a view of every entrance to every school in America? You search every bag of every person who goes in, everyone with a long coat, everyone with baggy clothing, all day every day? Does anyone picture that and think to themselves "yes, that's what it looks like when society works"?

[gowlerk 2,190]

22 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

I consider being a LEO the same thing.  When you take that job, you must accept that you might die in the line of duty.

My understanding is that while they may die on the job they have taken no oath nor committed to place themselves in danger to save others. It is not their job to take a bullet for you or your grandchildren. Their job is to enforce the law by bringing lawbreakers to justice. And that is dangerous enough all by itself. There has been a fair amount written about this misunderstanding of the role of police in society. Even the military members that they are sometimes mistaken for are not in the business of saving members of the public. Their focus in battle would be to save only members of their side. 

Edited June 26, 2024 by gowlerk

[normiss 798]

17 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

My understanding is that while they may die on the job they have taken no oath nor committed to place themselves in danger to save others. It is not their job to take a bullet for you or your grandchildren. Their job is to enforce the law by bringing lawbreakers to justice. And that is dangerous enough all by itself. There has been a fair amount written about this misunderstanding of the role of police in society. Even the military members that they are sometimes mistaken for are not in the business of saving members of the public. Their focus in battle would be to save only members of their side. 

Gonna need to change some of the "Protect and Serve" cop car stickers.

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

20 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

My understanding is that while they may die on the job they have taken no oath nor committed to place themselves in danger to save others. It is not their job to take a bullet for you or your grandchildren. Their job is to enforce the law by bringing lawbreakers to justice. And that is dangerous enough all by itself. There has been a fair amount written about this misunderstanding of the role of police in society. Even the military members that they are sometimes mistaken for are not in the business of saving members of the public. Their focus in battle would be to save only members of their side. 

Hi Ken,

Re:  It is not their job to take a bullet for you or your grandchildren.

Quite often, as I listen to someone speak on an issue, I often think of the old adage:  It is all good until it is your ox that is getting gored.

You just might want that LEO to take that bullet if it were your grandchild.

I know I would.

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,489]

10 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

Re:  It is not their job to take a bullet for you or your grandchildren.

Quite often, as I listen to someone speak on an issue, I often think of the old adage:  It is all good until it is your ox that is getting gored.

You just might want that LEO to take that bullet if it were your grandchild.

I know I would.

Jerry Baumchen

Sure - but his point is about what the reality is, not what we would want it to be.

And that's not to say that many police officers wouldn't do that, but it is not in fact their duty or legal responsibility to do that.

Edited June 26, 2024 by jakee

[gowlerk 2,190]

40 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

Re:  It is not their job to take a bullet for you or your grandchildren.

Quite often, as I listen to someone speak on an issue, I often think of the old adage:  It is all good until it is your ox that is getting gored.

You just might want that LEO to take that bullet if it were your grandchild.

I know I would.

Jerry Baumchen

Of course I would. But do I have a right to expect that?

[BIGUN 1,297]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Sure, but what are we saying here? You have armed guards with a view of every entrance to every school in America? You search every bag of every person who goes in, everyone with a long coat, everyone with baggy clothing, all day every day?

TSA. 3 million people per day. 

Campus Police - Only those who are not students. 

Not hard. 

[jakee 1,489]

5 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

TSA. 3 million people per day. 

Campus Police - Only those who are not students. 

Not hard. 

You’re ok with students killing students, then?

[BIGUN 1,297]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

It is not their job to take a bullet for you or your grandchildren. 

You're mistaken - that is EXACTLY their job and if they can't do it, then don't put on the pretty blue uniform.