More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[JoeWeber 2,823]

  On 8/20/2022 at 5:58 PM, jakee said:

So some cop cars in Oaklahoma carry assault rifles in the back seat. Where the arrested suspects go. Which can apparently cause issues that no-one could possibly have foreseen...

 

Woman slips handcuffs and shoots at police in Oklahoma

A woman who was detained in the back of a police car managed to slip out of her handcuffs, grab an AR-15, and shoot and wound two people.

"This is something you never think would happen," Grady County Undersheriff Gary Boggers told the BBC.

Absolutely no one could have foreseen the possibility. Go Sooners!

[jakee 1,563]

  On 8/20/2022 at 7:28 PM, JoeWeber said:

"This is something you never think would happen," Grady County Undersheriff Gary Boggers told the BBC.

“We hope other agencies can learn a lesson from this too” he said - desperately hoping they’re not the only ones who’ve been this stupid.

[wmw999 2,534]

Didn’t they watch “No Country for Old Men?”

Wendy P. 

[kallend 2,106]

  On 8/20/2022 at 7:28 PM, JoeWeber said:

A woman who was detained in the back of a police car managed to slip out of her handcuffs, grab an AR-15, and shoot and wound two people.

"This is something you never think would happen," Grady County Undersheriff Gary Boggers told the BBC.

Absolutely no one could have foreseen the possibility. Go Sooners!

No surprise there.  Oklahomans couldn't forsee that electing a lying con-man to the presidency would be a bad mistake.

[olofscience 489]

  On 8/20/2022 at 5:49 AM, Slim King said:

Armed teachers could have prevented or inhibited virtually ALL of these slaughters... Prove me wrong.

Teachers' job is to teach - not act like Rambo in case of a school shooting.

 

In Parkland, a guard whose job WAS to shoot the gunman, didn't do it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48521988

In Uvalde, the police whose JOB was to stop the gunman, also didn't. https://www.nytimes.com/article/uvalde-texas-school-shooting.html

 

So these people were PAID to stop gunmen and still did a terrible job. How much better will underpaid, overstressed, undertrained teachers perform these feats of law enforcement?

[olofscience 489]

  On 8/20/2022 at 5:49 AM, Slim King said:

Armed teachers could have prevented or inhibited virtually ALL of these slaughters... Prove me wrong.

And just to add, 'virtually all' just shows a bad understanding of mathematics.

If there is a gunman, and you have a gun:

• assuming you and the gunman have the same amount of training
• assuming you have the same weapon
• assuming you have the same body protection

Then the probability of stopping the gunman would be 50%. If any of the variables tilt the other way, then your chances of surviving (and stopping the gunman) diminish. That's pretty far from "virtually all".

Proof: in the 2022 Buffalo mass shooting, there was ONE good guy with a gun. He fired at the attacker. He died.

 

So unless you have a much better gun, much better armour, and much better training than a mass shooter, then you're pretty far from being able to stop 'virtually ALL' of these shootings (or even surviving). But then again, every gun supporter I meet has fantasies of being able to jump in slow motion while firing their weapon killing the bad guys. Because they're special.

I wonder how these armed teachers stack up, where do they find time to do the training? Going to class every day in full body armour must also get difficult after a while.

[JoeWeber 2,823]

  On 8/21/2022 at 2:52 PM, olofscience said:

And just to add, 'virtually all' just shows a bad understanding of mathematics.

If there is a gunman, and you have a gun:

• assuming you and the gunman have the same amount of training
• assuming you have the same weapon
• assuming you have the same body protection

Then the probability of stopping the gunman would be 50%. If any of the variables tilt the other way, then your chances of surviving (and stopping the gunman) diminish. That's pretty far from "virtually all".

Proof: in the 2022 Buffalo mass shooting, there was ONE good guy with a gun. He fired at the attacker. He died.

 

So unless you have a much better gun, much better armour, and much better training than a mass shooter, then you're pretty far from being able to stop 'virtually ALL' of these shootings (or even surviving). But then again, every gun supporter I meet has fantasies of being able to jump in slow motion while firing their weapon killing the bad guys. Because they're special.

I wonder how these armed teachers stack up, where do they find time to do the training? Going to class every day in full body armour must also get difficult after a while.

Even more important than the math is that the gunman knows in advance what is about to happen and owns the element of surprise.

[olofscience 489]

  On 8/21/2022 at 6:36 PM, Slim King said:

Armed teachers in Florida receive 144 hours of training. If they all were in the Guardian program it would be 100 armed and marksmen/teachers against one of maybe two attackers. Do the math.

I seem to remember the police greatly outnumbered attackers in Uvalde too. How did that turn out?

[olofscience 489]

  On 8/22/2022 at 2:46 AM, Slim King said:

I'm sure a teacher with a gun would not stand by when the killer is in his room.

In this hypothetical situation you just described, it looks like a lone teacher against a school shooter in his room.

So, with equal weapons, training, and protection the teacher has 50% chance of surviving.

 

I thought the hypothetical school shooter would be instantly outnumbered? Or are you proposing at least 2 armed teachers per classroom?

[olofscience 489]

  On 8/22/2022 at 7:07 AM, Slim King said:

Since 100% of teachers in the murder room have been killed I'm pretty sure 50/50 is a much better situation!!!!!!!!

50/50 is terrible.

And that's assuming the teacher and gunman are evenly matched. School shooters tend to prepare for their crimes.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 8/21/2022 at 10:04 AM, olofscience said:

In Uvalde, the police whose JOB was to stop the gunman,

Not their job. Their only job is to protect assets of the government they work for. Protecting people is specifically NOT their job.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 8/22/2022 at 4:38 PM, Slim King said:

There are teachers in my sons's school who are armed according to the Guardian Program. When and if the school were to be attacked I myself hope he is in one of these classrooms ... Where would you want your child to be? In a class with no weapons at all????

I would want my son to be in a classroom with better teachers and without the fear of school shootings. Thankfully that is exactly what they both got. 

By the way, if your reading skills were a bit better you would have noticed that I wasn't referring to teachers.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 8/22/2022 at 4:39 PM, Slim King said:

50% is a much better chance the the 0% survival rate we have now.

Wouldn't it be great if education levels were more important than survival rates.

[olofscience 489]

  On 8/22/2022 at 4:39 PM, Slim King said:

50% is a much better chance the the 0% survival rate we have now.

Survival rate that YOU have now.

I live in Europe in a country where there hasn't been a school shooting in more than 25 years.

50% is a much better chance, you're right - but in my opinion still terrible. It's only your children's lives at stake anyway, who am I to say it's not a good idea to gamble with those odds?

Edited August 22, 2022 by olofscience

[olofscience 489]

  On 8/22/2022 at 5:03 PM, Slim King said:

You are lucky ... We wouldn't be having these issues except for the politicians "GUN FREE ZONES" BS

Well practically the entire country here is a "gun free zone"...it's good. I highly recommend it.

[kallend 2,106]

  On 8/22/2022 at 4:38 PM, Slim King said:

 Where would you want your child to be? In a class with no weapons at all????

Yes.  No weapons for bad guys - absolutely.

[JoeWeber 2,823]

  On 8/22/2022 at 5:39 PM, kallend said:

Yes.  No weapons for bad guys - absolutely.

Or nitwits:

A man fumbled with his gun while inside a Georgia Walmart, causing it to discharged and strike four people including himself -- with a single bullet. The man is now recovering from his injuries, WSB-TV reports.

Michael Walton, 29, was carrying the gun in his waistband unholstered when it began sliding down his leg, causing him to grab for it.

“The gun was in his waistband not holstered and loaded. The gun slipped down his leg, he attempted to grab it, and was somehow manipulating the weapon and discharged the firearm,” said Sgt. Akeem Turnbull with Lovejoy Police.

“One of the victims also got hit in the leg. The other one got hit in the back of the leg and the other one got some bruising. All of them were towards the lower portions of the bodies," Turnbull added.

[billvon 3,070]

  On 8/22/2022 at 7:07 AM, Slim King said:

Since 100% of teachers in the murder room have been killed I'm pretty sure 50/50 is a much better situation!!!!!!!!

Since 100% of school shootings are done with guns, eliminating guns would end 100% of them.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 8/22/2022 at 6:51 PM, Slim King said:

How do you suggest removing all the guns from the criminals? I'll wait.

False dichotomy.

[billvon 3,070]

  On 8/22/2022 at 6:51 PM, Slim King said:

How do you suggest removing all the guns from the criminals? I'll wait.

I don't.  I was merely stating a fact.  Sorry if it upset you.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 8/22/2022 at 7:15 PM, Slim King said:

What is your answer? You said to remove all the guns. That's an impossibility. Criminals can always get guns and what if the police that have guns go bad? Your answer is far from logical .. I'm not upset .. I'm amused

Yet it seems to work around the rest of the western world. Logic would dictate that similar solutions would also work in the US. Might just take some time.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 8/22/2022 at 8:54 PM, Slim King said:

Most of the rest of the world is unarmed .. The government has no need to confiscate their guns ... They re already "Under the gun" so to speak... No one has ever removed all the guns. The governments always keep theirs. All those people in the Chinese work camps wish that they had guns....

Yeah I was just talking about severely reducing school shootings. The US has previously proven it is entirely possible to put ethnic groups in camps, armed populace or not.

Probably also a good time to remind people that the only time the NRA support gun control was when black people started bearing arms.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 8/22/2022 at 9:50 PM, Slim King said:

The NRA provided arms to stop the lynchings and they succeeded ... Almost all blacks supported the NRA and were basically republicans by nature. That's why the Democrat (Former) slave owners hated the NRA. Watch MAAFA 21 ... An excellent documentary about the black struggle and how the white Democrats wanted them stopped.

Highly unlikely.

It's unclear, however, whether the NRA provided any assistance, based on what Williams' widow, Mabel, said in a University of North Carolina oral history interview.

Mabel Williams said her husband altered the occupations of the members when applying for the NRA charter. "I'm sure when we joined and the years after then, had they known we were a black group, they would have revoked our charter," she said.

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/jun/05/harry-alford/nra-founded-fight-kkk-black-leader-says/

 

However we do know for sure this happened:

https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act

[jakee 1,563]

  On 8/22/2022 at 4:39 PM, Slim King said:

50% is a much better chance the the 0% survival rate we have now. 

Errm, so in every school shooting, everyone dies? You sure about that Slim? It sounds a little shady.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 8/22/2022 at 10:10 PM, jakee said:

Errm, so in every school shooting, everyone dies? You sure about that Slim? It sounds a little shady.

Brent's understanding of percentages is at a Florida High School level.