More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[mistercwood 287]

45 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

The First Amendment is not perfectly worded either but no one is claiming the screaming fire in a theater is protected speech.

Tiny nitpick, but yes it is. The initial ruling in that case was overturned shortly afterwards. 

Otherwise in full agreeance!

[BIGUN 1,307]

7 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

If you believe the world is inherently dangerous then you likely think being armed is critical to survival. 

All good points, Joe. The above portion resonates with me. IMO, we lost this battle when we settled for teaching children how to be sheep in active shooter drills. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by BIGUN
And, that's what pisses me off.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

Just now, BIGUN said:

All good points, Joe. The above portion resonates with me. IMO, we lost this battle when we settled for teaching children how to be sheep in active shooter drills. 

But it's understandable, right? After all, their parents were taught that hiding under a school desk was useful during a nuclear attack. To your larger point, the problem is the illusion that these things are manageable as a matter of societal policy that promotes more personal protection over mitigating the risk. We do not need bullet proof school back packs or school bus windows, we need bullet proof policies that promote an ethos that guns are the problem. We do not need to vilify guns; we need to not glorify guns. Perhaps, following the lead of cigarettes advertising, the box should have pictures of shooting victims not smiling hunters. True or not, we've allowed ourselves to be trained that cars aren't the problem, speeding in school zones is the problem. As far as I know there is no mention of either in the Constitution but we've worked that out reasonably. We can do the same with guns if the never give an inch crowd could just see giving an inch before it's their kid.

Edited March 15, 2023 by JoeWeber

[Phil1111 1,149]

8 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

....If you believe the world is inherently dangerous then you likely think being armed is critical to survival. If you think the world is mostly a decent place to live if you just avoid some dangerous spots then you probably think it's dumb to carry a gun. In either case, you ought to scrutinize why you think the world is as you believe it is when so many others see it differently. And then honestly test your view.

Visitors to the US understand that they must travel W/O a gun. Yet they keep coming.

[wmw999 2,444]

When you consider what’s reported in the news (“if it bleeds it leads”), it’s not really surprising that so many people think the world is really dangerous in middle America. Any violence, anywhere, is reported as though it were immediate.

Wendy P. 

[billvon 2,991]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Any violence, anywhere, is reported as though it were immediate.

Do you mean pervasive?  I mean, most news is fairly immediate, which is a good thing.

[wmw999 2,444]

23 minutes ago, billvon said:

Do you mean pervasive?  I mean, most news is fairly immediate, which is a good thing.

I mean immediate in the sense of being close by and right now (admittedly not the primary definition)

Wendy P. 

[billvon 2,991]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

I mean immediate in the sense of being close by and right now (admittedly not the primary definition)

Overall I think a lot of the news today is very immediate temporally (i.e. reported soon after it occurs) and FAIRLY immediate spatially (i.e. news that is close to the reporter is emphasized over news that is farther away.)  I think this is, overall, a good thing, since people are more concerned about recent things that are close by.

If anything I think one of the things leading to the perception that "things are dangerous" is the opposite - a national news organization that reports a shooting in Sandy Hook makes it seem that the shooting is actually right next door to the guy in Los Angeles watching the news.  This was not the case 50 years ago, since local broadcast news tended to de-emphasize things that happened 3000 miles away, and there was no other immediate source of news.  (Newspapers were delayed by a day.)  Cable news / national news shows changed this by allowing a single show to reach everyone in the US, and of course the internet has changed "more at 11" to "this is happening RIGHT NOW."

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

6 hours ago, wmw999 said:

When you consider what’s reported in the news (“if it bleeds it leads”), it’s not really surprising that so many people think the world is really dangerous in middle America. Any violence, anywhere, is reported as though it were immediate.

Wendy P. 

Hi Wendy,

Re:  (“if it bleeds it leads”)

That was for when we all had newspapers delivered to our front doors.

Today, on the local tv news, it is:  BREAKING NEWS

About 9 out of 10 local tv broadcasts in my area begin with it.

About a week or so ago, my local 5 PM tv newscast had a BREAKING NEWS story that had appeared on another channel two days before.  But, it was BREAKING NEWS now.

It's all about making the sale(s).

Jerry Baumchen

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

7 hours ago, wmw999 said:

When you consider what’s reported in the news (“if it bleeds it leads”), it’s not really surprising that so many people think the world is really dangerous in middle America. Any violence, anywhere, is reported as though it were immediate.

Wendy P. 

Also, don't forget about all the political ads, particularly by the right wing 'influence groups' that scream "THE LIBERALS ARE ALLOWING CRIMINALS TO DESTROY YOUR CITIES AND THE LIBERAL JUDGES LET THEM GO FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!" in the ads.

[kallend 2,026]

Dan Gelber is the mayor of Miami Beach:

“Both shootings were between visitors to Miami Beach and did not involve residents,” Gelber said. “In both cases, police were literally seconds away from the incidents and arrests were made within minutes. That said, it is clear that even an unprecedented police presence could not prevent these incidents from occurring.”

Leads one to wonder if Miami Beach police either don't have guns, or are not "good guys".

Or maybe it's just that the NRA's "good guys with guns" mantra is just a myth.

[Phil1111 1,149]

America should be getting safer every day. Its now been 42 months straight where US new gun sales have run over 1,000,000 a month.

Its only a matter of time till mass shootings slow down. Which is currently at a one a day pace.

[jakee 1,489]

On 3/15/2023 at 1:59 AM, BIGUN said:

Brother, between 2001 and the end of the war, there were more children killed in the U.S. by gunfire, than our own military killed in Iraq/Afghanistan.  In fact, roughly 7,000 children were killed by gunfire in the five years after Sandy Hook (2012-2017) than the 6,900 U.S. military killed during the war. Think about that for awhile. Then get pissed off.   

I think the military definitely killed more Iraqis and Afghans than that.

[gowlerk 2,190]

29 minutes ago, jakee said:

I think the military definitely killed more Iraqis and Afghans than that.

Americans in particular and westerners in general don't get pissed off by that. 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

36 minutes ago, kallend said:

Dan Gelber is the mayor of Miami Beach:

“Both shootings were between visitors to Miami Beach and did not involve residents,” Gelber said. “In both cases, police were literally seconds away from the incidents and arrests were made within minutes. That said, it is clear that even an unprecedented police presence could not prevent these incidents from occurring.”

Leads one to wonder if Miami Beach police either don't have guns, or are not "good guys".

Or maybe it's just that the NRA's "good guys with guns" mantra is just a myth.

The Ulvade cops knew it was an AR, a weapon even they referred to as a "Battle Rifle" as they cowered in he hallway afraid for their lives. What will it take for the Brents of the world to be able to recognize that their precious "platform" has our entire society, including our Police, paralyzed with fear; the weapon itself has become the embodiment of screaming fire in a theater. So what with the Second Amendment, they should be banned under the First Amendment.

Officers arriving at Robb Elementary on May 24 had similar reactions as they realized that the gunman had an AR-15.

“You know what kind of gun?” state Trooper Richard Bogdanski asked in a conversation captured on his body-camera footage outside of the school.

“AR. He has a battle rifle,” a voice responded.

“Does he really?” another asked.

“What’s the safest way to do this? I’m not trying to get clapped out,” Bogdanski said.

[wmw999 2,444]

3 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

What will it take for the Brents of the world to be able to recognize that their precious "platform" has our entire society, including our Police, paralyzed with fear;

I believe that's considered to be a feature, not a problem.

Edit to add: Note that I think it's a problem. If you're scaring the police, how are you supporting them?

Wendy P.

[brenthutch 444]

On 3/13/2023 at 11:57 AM, SkyDekker said:

Caravan....guns....caravan.....guns....border....guns...caravan...guns....border...

 

Rinse and repeat.

Jan 6, Trump, FOX, Jan 6, Trump, FOX, Jan 6, Trump, FOX 

Rinse and repeat 

[Phil1111 1,149]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:15 PM, JoeWeber said:

...the glorification of guns in America. Guy's like Brent with his silly non-points, like posting a picture of AR-15's and Ammo and observing that they don't auto load and kill kids, are the problem. The Second Amendment isn't the problem, either. Again, it's where we are at culturally....

Thats just plain  UN-American. Soon the AR-15 will be the . "National Gun of the United States,” positioning it alongside official symbols like the bald eagle and Francis Scott Key’s “Star Spangled Banner” in representing the U.S."

"The bill was unveiled this week by gun store owner Rep. Barry Moore of Alabama. It has been cosponsored by Representatives Lauren Boebert (R-Colorado), Andrew Clyde (R-Georgia) and George Santos (R-New York)."  February 24, 2023

[gowlerk 2,190]

5 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Thats just plain  UN-American. Soon the AR-15 will be the . "National Gun of the United States,” positioning it alongside official symbols like the bald eagle and Francis Scott Key’s “Star Spangled Banner” in representing the U.S."

"The bill was unveiled this week by gun store owner Rep. Barry Moore of Alabama. It has been cosponsored by Representatives Lauren Boebert (R-Colorado), Andrew Clyde (R-Georgia) and George Santos (R-New York)."  February 24, 2023

Glory, glory, Hallelujah.

[Phil1111 1,149]

28 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Glory, glory, Hallelujah.

Maybe republicans will update the government seal. By removing the arrows and placing the AR-15 on instead?

[normiss 798]

54 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Glory, glory, Hallelujah.

I thought in these times we're to say "Praise be", unless this is a case of "Blessed be the fruit".

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

1 hour ago, normiss said:

I thought in these times we're to say "Praise be", unless this is a case of "Blessed be the fruit".

 

That's funny.

I thought it was 'bless their hearts'.

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by wolfriverjoe

[mistercwood 287]

5 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

the weapon itself has become the embodiment of screaming fire in a theater. So what with the Second Amendment, they should be banned under the First Amendment.

I am in full agreement with your overall stance, however I am begging people to stop using this analogy. It *is* protected speech to shout fire in a crowded theatre, the ruling in the case that everyone talks about was almost immediately overturned as a 1A violation.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

Just now, mistercwood said:

I am in full agreement with your overall stance, however I am begging people to stop using this analogy. It *is* protected speech to shout fire in a crowded theatre, the ruling in the case that everyone talks about was almost immediately overturned as a 1A violation.

Roger. I'll get on board.

[billvon 2,991]

In a fairly groundbreaking case, the parents of the Oxford shooter (Ethan Crumbley) are being charged with involuntary manslaughter for providing their troubled and violent son access to weapons, and not getting him help when he showed signs that he would become violent.  A few days before the shooting, teachers at Crumbley's school found a drawing of someone shooting guns with the caption "The thoughts won’t stop help me" .  Teachers showed this to his parents and told them to get him counseling within 48 hours.  They did not, and further they purchased new weapons and left them in unlocked storage.  Crumbley also brought live ammunition to school to show to his classmates, and brought in a severed bird head to show as well.  He also posted the (by-now usual) threats on social media.

This will be an interesting case, since the "well, why punish responsible gun owners?" argument won't fly here - but at the same time, gun enthusiasts will likely be aghast at the idea that they could be held responsible for not securing their weapons against a known risk.