Mirrors to help pilots spot

[riggerrob 643]

Have you ever seen a pilot spot with a mirror?
A mirror that points straight down?

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi Rob,

Quote

Have you ever seen a pilot spot with a mirror?

Nope, but I have seen a few Cessna pilots use a fish-spotting window. It works quite well,

Jerry Baumchen

[riggerrob 643]

Are you talking about "inflated" windows installed in doors?

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi Rob,

Quote

"inflated" windows

I would call the ones that I have seen as 'bubble' windows.

They have an outward bubble where the pilot can get about 1/2 of his head outside of what would be the door frame so that he can look straight down.

A rose is a rose . . .

Jerry Baumchen

[obelixtim 150]

If you put a mirror in a plane, the pilots will spend their time doing their hair, touching up their makeup, squeezing their pimples........

Bad move.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[riggerrob 643]

Pilots vain?
Surely you jest?

[obelixtim 150]

riggerrob

Pilots vain?
Surely you jest?

You've seen them around the hot women that show up at the DZ?

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[councilman24 37]

Pilots don't spot, skydivers spot!

Skydivers throw and watch the wind drift, skydivers watch the drift and ground speed of the airplane, skydivers account for the time necessary for the formations on the load to climb out so that all can reach the LZ, skydivers check for traffic below, skydivers check for clouds below, skydivers adjust the spot for opening altitudes, skydivers are responsible for their own exit and landing!

At least that's how it was, that's how it should be and that's what the FAA used to believe. Now pilots and DZO's as well as the jumpers can be fined for FAR violations.

Pilots don't need to see straight down. Unfortunately we have trouble convincing our new skydiver drivers fresh from the local university aviation program of that fact.

Yeah, yeah I know, I'm an old fart.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 37]

Aside from my rant, I know how to tell if I'm looking straight down directly. Not sure I could tell that in the limited field of view of a mirror.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[pchapman 279]

councilman24

Pilots don't spot, skydivers spot!

Fair enough. But you've been around. Haven't you been in a C-182, the newbie pilot opens the door, and you're almost crossing the DZ but a couple fields off to the side? "What's the hand signal for 90 left then 90 right??"

Having a pilot who can spot makes it easier for skydivers to do their spotting, and doesn't waste DZ fuel on go arounds.

[councilman24 37]

pchapman

***Pilots don't spot, skydivers spot!

Fair enough. But you've been around. Haven't you been in a C-182, the newbie pilot opens the door, and you're almost crossing the DZ but a couple fields off to the side? "What's the hand signal for 90 left then 90 right??"

Having a pilot who can spot makes it easier for skydivers to do their spotting, and doesn't waste DZ fuel on go arounds.

That's the newbies I was ranting about. They insist that THEY aee the airport which means that we do need a 90 right and cut.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi Terry,

Quote

Pilots don't spot

You might reconsider that statement if you had ever had Herb Porter, former DZO of the Abbotsford, BC dz in the pilot's seat ( this was back in the 60's ).

You told Herb what altitude you wanted & where you wanted to get out. When he opened the door you would be about 15 secs from 'there.'

Jerry Baumchen

[councilman24 37]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Terry,

Quote

Pilots don't spot

You might reconsider that statement if you had ever had Herb Porter, former DZO of the Abbotsford, BC dz in the pilot's seat ( this was back in the 60's ).

You told Herb what altitude you wanted & where you wanted to get out. When he opened the door you would be about 15 secs from 'there.'

Jerry Baumchen

I've know many pilots like that and jumped with one last week. But who "spotted". The jumper who told him where he wanted to be? And who threw the winddrift?

Yes we all know past and current pilots who never require a correction. I still maintain that while they are excellent drivers the skydivers spot.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gowlerk 2,192]

Throwing wind drifts is littering! A rate one at 2000 ft and another one at 6000. Pilot observes and reports the drift, jumpers calculate the spot. Easy.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[councilman24 37]

gowlerk

Throwing wind drifts is littering! A rate one at 2000 ft and another one at 6000. Pilot observes and reports the drift, jumpers calculate the spot. Easy.

Ever spot for rounds? I did 6 weeks ago. Sport jump.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gowlerk 2,192]

councilman24

***Throwing wind drifts is littering! A rate one at 2000 ft and another one at 6000. Pilot observes and reports the drift, jumpers calculate the spot. Easy.

Ever spot for rounds? I did 6 weeks ago. Sport jump.


Nope, I have not. That's a totally different ball game. Jumping round parachutes is also littering! Only with bodies instead of crepe paper.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[mathrick 2]

I still threw a drift to get cleared for no-jump-master jumps in my SL progression! That was in 2015, and was really only included as a talking point about the fundamentals of spotting, how corrections for the drift worked, and also since it's technically there in the rulebook and we do have almost an entire roll of crepe paper lying around, students would still do it depending on how much the JM felt it was a waste of time...

Anyway mine hit the tail and disintegrated instantly, so we didn't actually calculate the correction from where it landed.

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[riggerrob 643]

Yes, I have dropped WDIs and spotted for students jumping round parachutes.
One day we were on a wind-hold all afternoon. Winds finally dropped as the sun sank towards the horizon. I tossed a WRI, but it disintegrated, so I guessed the spot. My first S/L student landed in a large field south of the runway. I shortened the spot and my second student landed in the grass just short of the runway. My last student landed beside the bowl (north of the runway).
Another instructor chewed me out in the packing area.
He took a load of students up and all his students landed a long way south of the runway.
The chief instructor took up a load of students and they landed so far south that I worried about them landing in the forest (south of the airport).
I quietly finished packing and drove home.

[obelixtim 150]

riggerrob

Yes, I have dropped WDIs and spotted for students jumping round parachutes.
One day we were on a wind-hold all afternoon. Winds finally dropped as the sun sank towards the horizon. I tossed a WRI, but it disintegrated, so I guessed the spot. My first S/L student landed in a large field south of the runway. I shortened the spot and my second student landed in the grass just short of the runway. My last student landed beside the bowl (north of the runway).
Another instructor chewed me out in the packing area.
He took a load of students up and all his students landed a long way south of the runway.
The chief instructor took up a load of students and they landed so far south that I worried about them landing in the forest (south of the airport).
I quietly finished packing and drove home.

I just had Nelson from the Simpsons in my head pointing and going "Harr haaaarrr"

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[dpreguy 14]

TU. Call me again about the rigger with "all ratings". WG

[jumpilotmdm 0]

The only mirror I use is to check if the GoPro lite is on, or the female "features" of the tandem student kneeling to the right of me. I know where the pea gravel is by feel. Ha-Ha...but I can spot for you if asked.

[JohnMitchell 16]

riggerrob

A mirror that points straight down?

Gyro stabilized or just mounted that way?

Sounds like a bit of work.

[JohnMitchell 16]

pchapman

Fair enough. But you've been around. Haven't you been in a C-182, the newbie pilot opens the door, and you're almost crossing the DZ but a couple fields off to the side? "What's the hand signal for 90 left then 90 right??"

I've seen some horrible jumpruns, esp. multi thousand hour pilots who are brand new to jumpruns but know WAY too much to listen to a skydiver.

I have given 90 degree corrections in the past. That taught me to begin spotting long before the door opens. If they ain't where I like, I'll ask 'em early what the plan is.

[Bob_Church 7]

"I have given 90 degree corrections in the past. "

We had a pilot at the airport (not a dz) that wanted to learn to fly jumpers to help out at the air shows. The first time he took us up the wind was coming straight down the runway. A couple of days later he took us up and used the same flight path, figuring "hey it worked last time," and I finally got to say "90 right!"
Even with regular pilots that have a little jump experience I've learned to navigate completely differently. Since the pilot we usually use seems physically unable to do a correction of less than 30 degrees I get him going in the general direction but set it up so that I can give one big correction that puts me over the spot. Since I can't control the direction of approach I just make sure I'm ready to go as soon as he is over it.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Did an end of day beach demo jump years ago. I was in the back of a 206 and we just went round and round and round with the demo team leader getting ever more exasperated with the pilot, giving bigger and bigger corrections each time we ran in. 5 right became, 10. 10 became 20. 20 became 90. We must have done 3 or 4 full circuits running over (or at least vaguely over) the PLA.

In the end the demo team leader leant over and, pointing, told the pilot he wanted us 1/2 a mile over there and given the off-shore breeze, could he please fly over the beach rather than out at sea... or words to that effect anyway.