Incentives to vax

[Cocowheats 10]

1 minute ago, SkyDekker said:

In Canada serious adverse side effects have been reported in 0.006% of doses administered. (0.024% non-serious adverse side effects)

That is good.

Solid statistics is what will bring more people around to getting the vaccine. In the USA, a full FDA approval would be a step forward as well.

[Cocowheats 10]

6 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Except last year all off a sudden 10,000 to 20,000 more Americans started dying each and every week.

Ever wonder how that happened? Do you think that is a trend that should have been allowed to continue?

It depends if it comes at the expense of freedom and/or liberty.

I'm not sorry that freedom can be scary. This is a concept that many "free" people can not fathom.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Cocowheats

[kallend 2,106]

4 minutes ago, Cocowheats said:

That is good.

Solid statistics is what will bring more people around to getting the vaccine. In the USA, a full FDA approval would be a step forward as well.

I disagree.  Idiots are generally incapable of understanding statistics.  We see that here.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

2 minutes ago, Cocowheats said:

It depends if it comes at the expense of freedom and/or liberty.

I'm not sorry that freedom can be scary.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

[Cocowheats 10]

1 minute ago, kallend said:

I disagree.  Idiots are generally incapable of understanding statistics.  We see that here.

So you honestly believe as more positive statistics about the available vaccines come out that they will not affect anyone on the fence about the legitimaticy of the vaccines?

 

Ok.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

3 minutes ago, kallend said:

I disagree.  Idiots are generally incapable of understanding statistics.  We see that here.

Or just discard them because their brother's friend's cousin knows a doctor who said something else.

[Cocowheats 10]

4 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

It means if it comes at the cost of sacrificing freedom and/or liberty, then that is a trade off I and many patriots will not be willing to get behind.

So to that, I am unapologetic that freedom can be scary.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Cocowheats

[SkyDekker 1,465]

7 minutes ago, Cocowheats said:

It means if it comes at the cost of sacrificing freedom and/or liberty, then that is a trade off I and many patriots will not be willing to get behind.

So to that, I am unapologetic that freedom can be scary.

What freedom were you asked to sacrifice? Do you mean the stay at home or mask mandates?

If so, would you be open to a system where survivors of those who died form COVID are able to sue people they were in contact with prior to getting COVID who did not wear masks or did not socially distance for instance?

[billvon 3,070]

2 hours ago, Cocowheats said:

LMAO.

 

We are talking things like nervous system disorders and other life altering or even ending complications, like GBS.

Nope.  We are talking about ALL adverse effects.  If you narrow it down to "life ending complications" then the number is approximately zero.  Specifically, it is three - and they were all due to TTS, which MAY be related to a specific vaccine (the J+J vaccine.)

So let's compare:

Deaths due to COVID-19 in the US: 595,000
Deaths due to the J+J vaccine in the US: 3 (maybe)

That means getting the vaccine is approximately 200,000 times more likely to save you than to kill you.

Quote

I'm not refuting that some people can/will die from covid. Some people do. Some people also die from the flu, rabies, car crashes, and *gasp* skydiving *gasp*.

Yes.  Again let's look at the numbers:

Deaths due to COVID-19 in the US: 595,000
Deaths due to skydiving (average year US) - 20
Deaths due to car crashes (average year US) - 30,000
Deaths due to rabies (average year in the US) - 2
Deaths due to the flu (average year) - 38,000

That means the odds an American dying from COVID-19 is 9 times more than their odds of dying from rabies, skydiving, car crashes AND the flu - combined.

Quote

It means if it comes at the cost of sacrificing freedom and/or liberty, then that is a trade off I and many patriots will not be willing to get behind.

Like  . . . wearing a mask?

Are you one of those people who drives drunk all the time because you are a "patriot who refuses to sacrifice freedom and/or liberty?"

[JoeWeber 2,822]

27 minutes ago, billvon said:

Nope.  We are talking about ALL adverse effects.  If you narrow it down to "life ending complications" then the number is approximately zero.  Specifically, it is three - and they were all due to TTS, which MAY be related to a specific vaccine (the J+J vaccine.)

So let's compare:

Deaths due to COVID-19 in the US: 595,000
Deaths due to the J+J vaccine in the US: 3 (maybe)

That means getting the vaccine is approximately 200,000 times more likely to save you than to kill you.

Yes.  Again let's look at the numbers:

Deaths due to COVID-19 in the US: 595,000
Deaths due to skydiving (average year US) - 20
Deaths due to car crashes (average year US) - 30,000
Deaths due to rabies (average year in the US) - 2
Deaths due to the flu (average year) - 38,000

That means the odds an American dying from COVID-19 is 9 times more than their odds of dying from rabies, skydiving, car crashes AND the flu - combined.

Like  . . . wearing a mask?

Are you one of those people who drives drunk all the time because you are a "patriot who refuses to sacrifice freedom and/or liberty?"

I knew Art, that sucked. Moving on, it's intellects like cocoa puffs that cause me to think we really are doomed. The enlightenment didn't happen, not because it was a bad idea, but because there aren't enough people with the capacity to be enlightened. No herd enlightenment for you! 

[ryoder 1,590]

3 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I knew Art, that sucked. Moving on, it's intellects like cocoa puffs that cause me to think we really are doomed. The enlightenment didn't happen, not because it was a bad idea, but because there aren't enough people with the capacity to be enlightened. No herd enlightenment for you! 

LOL!

"Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs!"

Has anyone told Jakee we have a new one for him to fight with?

[JoeWeber 2,822]

4 minutes ago, ryoder said:

LOL!

"Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs!"

Has anyone told Jakee we have a new one for him to fight with?

Got me. Apparently I don't get along well with kids. The day I unblocked him he accused me of carrying an old grudge. So I fixed it, again.

Edited June 3, 2021 by JoeWeber

[kallend 2,106]

10 hours ago, Cocowheats said:

So you honestly believe as more positive statistics about the available vaccines come out that they will not affect anyone on the fence about the legitimaticy of the vaccines?

 

Ok.

QED

[kallend 2,106]

10 hours ago, Cocowheats said:

It means if it comes at the cost of sacrificing freedom and/or liberty, then that is a trade off I and many patriots will not be willing to get behind.

So to that, I am unapologetic that freedom can be scary.

And he plays the Patriot Card.   "The last refuge of a scoundrel”; Samuel Johnson

 

 

[Cocowheats 10]

Keep trying to shame me. Good luck.

Many of you probably enjoy shaming the non-mask wearers as well it sounds. Perhaps you can't comprehend that you could look perfectly healthy yet be a one lunged war veteran with breathing issues...or many other actual valid reasons. So those that couldn't actually tolerate wearing a mask should be forced to stay at home(loss of freedom)? What about that war veteran with one lung who lost that lung fighting for freedom? He should have a choice to live as he sees fit, like you or I. Yes I understand many non-maskers have a bs reason, but not ALL. The whole book by its cover thing, ya know...

The fact that you guys can't seem to comprehend why a reasonable person may decide to wait out the vaccines for awhile shows much of your own true colors, just as you folks thinking my posts show mine.

I also never said I wasn't vax'd. I offered an alternate view and be damned if it angered you folks, lol.

Dropzone never disappoints...

Edited June 3, 2021 by Cocowheats

[Cocowheats 10]

12 hours ago, billvon said:

Nope.  We are talking about ALL adverse effects.  If you narrow it down to "life ending complications" then the number is approximately zero.  Specifically, it is three - and they were all due to TTS, which MAY be related to a specific vaccine (the J+J vaccine.)

So let's compare:

Deaths due to COVID-19 in the US: 595,000
Deaths due to the J+J vaccine in the US: 3 (maybe)

That means getting the vaccine is approximately 200,000 times more likely to save you than to kill you.

Yes.  Again let's look at the numbers:

Deaths due to COVID-19 in the US: 595,000
Deaths due to skydiving (average year US) - 20
Deaths due to car crashes (average year US) - 30,000
Deaths due to rabies (average year in the US) - 2
Deaths due to the flu (average year) - 38,000

That means the odds an American dying from COVID-19 is 9 times more than their odds of dying from rabies, skydiving, car crashes AND the flu - combined.

Like  . . . wearing a mask?

Are you one of those people who drives drunk all the time because you are a "patriot who refuses to sacrifice freedom and/or liberty?"

That covid number is skewed. We will never know if it was truly more of less for many of reasons that we've already spoke of.

Having to wear a mask by mandate/law is a violation of freedom. Wearing one by choice is not. Big difference. Hard to comprehend, I know. Remember when Fauci and many others said they were useless? They backtracked around that. Hard to believe anyone would second guess any of this, huh?

[Cocowheats 10]

I've said my peace. You guys obviously will never see this from one of many other perspectives. Some people simply are playing out what they feel is safest for them. If that's waiting for a true FDA approval and some better insight on efficiency and possible complications, then that seems like a reasonable approach to me.

Obviously you folks will mostly lump the people you saw not wearing masks when they were required and those that are hesitant on the vaccine as idiots. You just can't fathom a reasonable reason to be anything other than. Bravo...

You shouldn't decide what's best for someone else. It is their choice.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Cocowheats

[gowlerk 2,249]

7 minutes ago, Cocowheats said:

You shouldn't decide what's best for someone else. It is their choice.

 

No one cares about you individually getting Covid because of your choices. If you are too special to be on the team working with us, so be it.

[kallend 2,106]

I suggest that the willfully unvaccinated who then get sick should bear 100% of the cost of their treatment.

 

Why should responsible folks subsidize the irresponsible?

[Cocowheats 10]

11 minutes ago, kallend said:

I suggest that the willfully unvaccinated who then get sick should bear 100% of the cost of their treatment.

 

Why should responsible folks subsidize the irresponsible?

The problem is that is a slippery slope. It's not unlike like saying insurance shouldn't cover injuries from skydiving. You knew the risks, now fully pay for it out of pocket. Why should reasonable folks who don't take "unreasonable" risks subsidize your high risk hobby injuries?

How many here have been injured skydiving and used your insurance? Shame on you...

 

See what I mean? I get it, ideally....but it never works out like that.

Not saying I disagree, just that it ain't that simple.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Cocowheats

[wmw999 2,534]

What is your feeling about (to go back to the skydiving analogy) someone who swoops the beer line at a demo and takes out a couple of spectators? It’s his freedom to swoop, after all. 
And that person (let’s say with claustrophobia) who just can’t stomach a mask; are their rights to be out and about more important than the bus driver who has his immune-compromised mother living with him?

And as far as evolving information, I see that as a feature. I know that my understanding and decisions change as I gain more information — don’t yours? 
Wendy P. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

15 hours ago, Cocowheats said:

LMAO. ....Again, this shaming people into to getting vaccinated is absolutely despicable! Many people have a valid reason not too....and if not, well it's THEIR choice, not YOURS!

There are several famous quotes about this line of thinking but here is one. “I have no right to throw my arms out in a crowd, for I might hit somebody on the nose. My right stops where his nose begins. I have no right to drink if my drinking injures others.”

Sure its an anti vaxxers right not to get vaccinated if they so choose. But if they subsequently infect someone who due to medical condition is especially vulnerable to covid. Who due to medical condition, age, or other factors can't be vaccinated. They should be held accountable for all of the subsequent injury.

Just as drunk driver is held to account when identified. If you don't want to get vaccinated. But want to interact with others...wear a full hazmat suit whenever you leave your residence.

[DougH 270]

2 hours ago, Cocowheats said:

The fact that you guys can't seem to comprehend why a reasonable person may decide to wait out the vaccines for awhile shows much of your own true colors, just as you folks thinking my posts show mine.

What do you define a reasonable person as? 

That is our sticking point.

I don't deny that some people have apprehensions and fears about the vaccine. I don't think that the majority of those people have taken the responsible next step of evaluating their feelings, and challenging them with the information that is available. 

A reasonable person makes their decisions through a logical framework, they don't base them on feelings alone.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

24 minutes ago, DougH said:

What do you define a reasonable person as? 

That is our sticking point.

I don't deny that some people have apprehensions and fears about the vaccine. I don't think that the majority of those people have taken the responsible next step of evaluating their feelings, and challenging them with the information that is available. 

A reasonable person makes their decisions through a logical framework, they don't base them on feelings alone.

The same goes for masks.

The number of people who have legitimate reasons to not wear a mask is miniscule.
The 'one lunged' folks can still get perfectly adequate amounts of oxygen through a mask. 
Masks are hot and uncomfortable.
I hate wearing them myself.

But I'm not stupid and stubborn enough to make up idiotic reasons to not wear one.

As far as the vaccine goes, there have been hundreds of millions of doses administered.
The number of serious reactions has been next to nothing (statistically close enough to zero not to matter).
Yet the fools and morons keep coming up with excuses why people shouldn't get vaccinated.

[billvon 3,070]

4 hours ago, Cocowheats said:

That covid number is skewed.

Yes, it is likely far more than that.  Consider the COVID deaths a bare minimum, since early on when we did not have COVID test kits available people would come in to small hospitals with what looked like pneumonia, be diagnosed with pneumonia, and die.  Those were not counted as COVID-19 deaths.

Quote

Having to wear a mask by mandate/law is a violation of freedom.

Is having to wear pants a violation of freedom?

Is having to take a taxi when you are drunk a violation of freedom?

Is a "don't poop on the sidewalk" law a violation of freedom?

If so, you don't understand the whole "living in a civilization" thing.

Quote

 Remember when Fauci and many others said they were useless?

Ah, I see what the problem is.  You are a victim of right wing media.  Fauci never said that.  He did say early on that it looked like there was no reason for people to wear masks, because traditionally coronaviruses travel more by contact than by aerosol.  As we learned more about the virus that advice changed.

He never said "masks are useless" and you would not have heard that unless you listen to right wing propaganda.