Decelerator reserve recert

[mark 107]

Parachute Systems Decelerator reserve scorecard is full.  If it were PD, I'd send it back for recertification.  What to do with Decelerator?

[pchapman 279]

Curiously, their current Vortex / Decelerator manual has no mention of, or instructions about the number of reserve pack jobs or any porosity checks. 

Then one can get into the arguments about "What instructions from a manufacturer are the official instructions a rigger must follow?"   I'm sure many would argue that something printed on the reserve parachute itself constitutes an official instruction, even if "it's not in the instruction manual"....

Does Parachute Systems currently answer messages or are they now completely gone, despite the website being up?

For a while in the last couple years, various people around the web said they were still supposedly open for spare parts sales & manufacture but not whole rigs & canopies....

[gowlerk 2,204]

Good question. How many entries does the scorecard have spaces for? I don't remember seeing one.

[mark 107]

56 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Good question. How many entries does the scorecard have spaces for? I don't remember seeing one.

40/25, like PD.

[gowlerk 2,204]

Man, that puts you in a tough spot. I'm guessing a rigger in your position has little choice but to ground it. But without clear instructions and no manufacturer to provide guidance it is clear as mud.

[ChrisHoward 8]

11 hours ago, pchapman said:

Does Parachute Systems currently answer messages or are they now completely gone, despite the website being up?

 

I recently hit them up for information regarding line trims for an old Chute Shop Hurricane 135. Got an email response the same day.

[mark 107]

31 minutes ago, ChrisHoward said:

I recently hit them up for information regarding line trims for an old Chute Shop Hurricane 135. Got an email response the same day.

Please share email address.  Thanks.

[riggerrob 643]

Try asking another factory (e.g. Performance Designs) to re-certify your old Decelerator reserve. Alternately, ask one of the Strong Tandem re-certification facilities to test your old reserve. Both manufacturers test for tensile strength and porosity.

[mark 107]

2 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Try asking another factory (e.g. Performance Designs) to re-certify your old Decelerator reserve. Alternately, ask one of the Strong Tandem re-certification facilities to test your old reserve. Both manufacturers test for tensile strength and porosity.

Ok, I could do that.  How should I translate their results into additional packs/jumps?  And do I need to sew another scorecard on the canopy?

[Deyan 36]

2 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Try asking another factory (e.g. Performance Designs) to re-certify your old Decelerator reserve. Alternately, ask one of the Strong Tandem re-certification facilities to test your old reserve. Both manufacturers test for tensile strength and porosity.

PD won't do that. One, because of liability and second because every company has their own standards for acceptable permeability and measuring procedures. I doubt PS has shared their standards with PD.

[JerryBaumchen 1,365]

1 hour ago, Deyan said:

PD won't do that. One, because of liability and second because every company has their own standards for acceptable permeability and measuring procedures. I doubt PS has shared their standards with PD.

Hi Deyan,

^^^^^ This.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[riggerrob 643]

Dear Deyan,

Tensile testing is easy because it is the same test for acid-mesh and PD reserves: 40 pounds.

Measuring porosity is slightly more difficult, but just ask the tester for raw porosity numbers. If porosity is less than 3 cubic feet per minute, your canopy is still within the original manufacturing specifications.

[ChrisHoward 8]

On 6/9/2021 at 9:36 PM, mark said:

Please share email address.  Thanks.

support at parachutesystems dot com

[fcajump 164]

21 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Dear Deyan,

Tensile testing is easy because it is the same test for acid-mesh and PD reserves: 40 pounds.

Measuring porosity is slightly more difficult, but just ask the tester for raw porosity numbers. If porosity is less than 3 cubic feet per minute, your canopy is still within the original manufacturing specifications.

(PD reserve pull test is at 30 lbs last time I looked, though the PIA standard is 40lbs...  When first included as an annual test on their reserves, IIRC they said there was too much potential for fiber distortion past the elastic rebound at 40lb and they felt 30 was sufficient to prove suitable strength.)

JW

 

[mark 107]

So after a week of back-and-forth emails, here's what I have:

• A porosity test is required.
• Anybody with a porosity tester can do the test.  There are no special qualifications for the tester, no calibration standards for the equipment. 
• The porosity test must be done at least twice (to get a "mean average"), but maybe more, one of which must be the center cell.  All the tests are "normally" done 12" from the nose on the top surface.  If there are normal places, there must be alternative places, but these are not specified.  The center cell reading can be an indeterminate amount higher than 3 cfm, as long as the average is 0-3.  If the average is higher than 3, there's nothing to prevent you from doing additional tests until you can get the average down to 3 or lower.
• If you are happy with the results of your inspection and the porosity test, you can put the canopy back in service for at least one pack.  After that, additional packs/jumps might be authorized, but I never got an answer to repeated questions about the correlation between porosity test results and additional packs/jumps.
• No new scorecard on the canopy required, so no way for the next rigger to know if the porosity test was done or what the results might have been, or how many additional packs/jumps might be authorized.
• Findings should be recorded on the data card, even though there is no data card retention requirement in the US, and the data card is not a maintenance record in the US.  Findings should also be recorded in the rigger logbook.

[JerryBaumchen 1,365]

4 hours ago, mark said:

So after a week of back-and-forth emails, here's what I have:

• A porosity test is required.
• Anybody with a porosity tester can do the test.  There are no special qualifications for the tester, no calibration standards for the equipment. 
• The porosity test must be done at least twice (to get a "mean average"), but maybe more, one of which must be the center cell.  All the tests are "normally" done 12" from the nose on the top surface.  If there are normal places, there must be alternative places, but these are not specified.  The center cell reading can be an indeterminate amount higher than 3 cfm, as long as the average is 0-3.  If the average is higher than 3, there's nothing to prevent you from doing additional tests until you can get the average down to 3 or lower.
• If you are happy with the results of your inspection and the porosity test, you can put the canopy back in service for at least one pack.  After that, additional packs/jumps might be authorized, but I never got an answer to repeated questions about the correlation between porosity test results and additional packs/jumps.
• No new scorecard on the canopy required, so no way for the next rigger to know if the porosity test was done or what the results might have been, or how many additional packs/jumps might be authorized.
• Findings should be recorded on the data card, even though there is no data card retention requirement in the US, and the data card is not a maintenance record in the US.  Findings should also be recorded in the rigger logbook.

Hi Mark,

Re:  no calibration standards for the equipment. 

IMO at that point the test is merely an exercise.

The rest of your post supports my above opinion.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 2,204]

13 hours ago, mark said:

So after a week of back-and-forth emails, here's what I have:

• A porosity test is required.
• Anybody with a porosity tester can do the test.  There are no special qualifications for the tester, no calibration standards for the equipment. 
• The porosity test must be done at least twice (to get a "mean average"), but maybe more, one of which must be the center cell.  All the tests are "normally" done 12" from the nose on the top surface.  If there are normal places, there must be alternative places, but these are not specified.  The center cell reading can be an indeterminate amount higher than 3 cfm, as long as the average is 0-3.  If the average is higher than 3, there's nothing to prevent you from doing additional tests until you can get the average down to 3 or lower.
• If you are happy with the results of your inspection and the porosity test, you can put the canopy back in service for at least one pack.  After that, additional packs/jumps might be authorized, but I never got an answer to repeated questions about the correlation between porosity test results and additional packs/jumps.
• No new scorecard on the canopy required, so no way for the next rigger to know if the porosity test was done or what the results might have been, or how many additional packs/jumps might be authorized.
• Findings should be recorded on the data card, even though there is no data card retention requirement in the US, and the data card is not a maintenance record in the US.  Findings should also be recorded in the rigger logbook.

The lesson here is "don't buy SA made products". The companies who make them come and go with the price of the Rand compared to the USD and you will be left with no support.

Edited June 18, 2021 by gowlerk

[sfzombie13 324]

22 hours ago, gowlerk said:

The lesson here is "don't buy SA made products". The companies who make them come and go with the price of the Rand compared to the USD and you will be left with no support.

oh, i don't know.  i jump old raven reserves because i like them and they are cheap.  maybe a new market for used mains?