How long till Kabul falls?

[gowlerk 2,249]

The kicker in all this for the evacuation? Who is going to cover the airfield for the last flights of US military personnel when they leave? Your friendly neighbourhood Taliban, that's who. It's all been worked out and agreed to.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

  On 8/29/2021 at 1:05 PM, sfzombie13 said:

ya know, had we been getting the afghan allies out starting last year in feb, when the agreement was signed, they would have all been gone by now.  had we started getting americans out maybe in june of this year, they would also have been out already.  what happened to stop that?  go on, tell me since you obviously know more than anyone else about what is going on.  from what i saw, it worked pretty well using the kabul airport, but i wasn't on the ground there, so it may not have been, but over 80k folks evacuated in one week is pretty damned good for me. 

 

 

The State Dept started telling Americans to leave (or make plans to leave) Afghanistan back in MARCH.

Obviously, they can't force them to go, but they encouraged people both to leave and to 'enroll' with the Embassy.
They've put a lot of effort into messaging those citizens still in country and enrolled with the Embassy.

To pretend that "Biden abandoned US citizens!!!!" is both ignorant and stupid (note: Not saying that Zombie implied that).

State Dept statement on this:
https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-on-afghanistan/

[ryoder 1,590]

WaPo: U.S. military strikes vehicle in Kabul that posed ‘imminent threat,’ official says

A U.S. military official said there were “significant secondary explosions” following the Sunday strike, indicating the presence of a “substantial amount of explosive material.”

[bigbearfng 18]

  On 8/29/2021 at 1:55 AM, wolfriverjoe said:

When and where did he say that?

Got a story or a quote?

Seriously, I did a quick search and came up empty.

 

"He also credited active U.S. military personnel at the airport who, despite being ordered not to go beyond the airport boundaries, offered crucial assistance such as overwatch, and stayed in communication with some of the members of the “Pineapple Express” ground team. "

 

 

https://www.newsandguts.com/abc-news-special-forces-vets-volunteered-to-run-covert-evacuation-of-630-afghan-allies/

[bigbearfng 18]

  On 8/29/2021 at 5:22 AM, JoeWeber said:

Thanks for the analysis. Do you really believe you have any clue what is actually going on? You know, like the whole geopolitical thing or what our military commanders recommend? 

And you do? Then please what's your analysis.

[JoeWeber 2,822]

  On 8/29/2021 at 4:43 PM, bigbearfng said:

And you do? Then please what's your analysis.

I definitely don't and I'd rather not make shit up. What I do know is that this clusterfuck is on Trump and his deal to release the Taliban and their leaders. It also seems reasonable to add more blame for his refusal to give Biden's transition team access after he lost the election. Further, notice to get the hell out of Afghanistan started back in March. You guys are acting like he's Hitler always overruling his General Staff. I simply don't see that. It's a damn shit show, for sure, and the sooner we are away the better, seems to me.

[kallend 2,106]

  On 8/29/2021 at 3:17 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

The State Dept started telling Americans to leave (or make plans to leave) Afghanistan back in MARCH.

Obviously, they can't force them to go, but they encouraged people both to leave and to 'enroll' with the Embassy.
They've put a lot of effort into messaging those citizens still in country and enrolled with the Embassy.

To pretend that "Biden abandoned US citizens!!!!" is both ignorant and stupid (note: Not saying that Zombie implied that).

State Dept statement on this:
https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-on-afghanistan/

I'm surprised that Republicans, with their opposition to government mandates on things like masks and vaccines, are so critical of the government for allowing people to ignore the advice to leave when it was much easier to do so.

Could it be hypocrisy, perchance?

[kallend 2,106]

  On 8/28/2021 at 3:39 PM, bigbearfng said:

The problem I have is when Biden ordered our military not to go past the airport perimeter. Commanders on the ground ignored that order/said FU or whatever and went out to rescue a group of stranded US citizens.

Nowhere in the article you linked does it say that Biden issued the order.

 

You just made that up.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

  On 8/29/2021 at 5:46 PM, kallend said:

Nowhere in the article you linked does it say that Biden issued the order.

 

You just made that up.

It also doesn't give any details about the order.

When was it applied?
It sounds like these guys did this at night.

I can see an entirely reasonable order to not leave the perimeter at night.

[bigbearfng 18]

  On 8/29/2021 at 5:46 PM, kallend said:

Nowhere in the article you linked does it say that Biden issued the order.

 

You just made that up.

he is the commander in chief for our military. though yes he probably doesn't even know what day it is. since you want to use "you just made that up" that standard would apply to most of the crap posted in the echo chamber here. I guess nothing has changed in here. Blue skies and carry on. Out.

[Stumpy 284]

  On 8/29/2021 at 10:38 PM, bigbearfng said:

he is the commander in chief for our military. though yes he probably doesn't even know what day it is. since you want to use "you just made that up" that standard would apply to most of the crap posted in the echo chamber here. I guess nothing has changed in here. Blue skies and carry on. Out.

Do you think Biden actually issues every order? I'm genuinely curious. There are only two possible two options here.
1. you do think that, in which case either Joe Biden is the busiest man on the planet, and/or you really aren't that bright
2. you were lying in your original post and are now moving the goalposts.

Which is it? 

[JerryBaumchen 1,434]

  On 8/29/2021 at 10:38 PM, bigbearfng said:

he is the commander in chief for our military. though yes he probably doesn't even know what day it is. since you want to use "you just made that up" that standard would apply to most of the crap posted in the echo chamber here. I guess nothing has changed in here. Blue skies and carry on. Out.

Hi big,

Re:  Out.

Bye.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 3,069]

  On 8/29/2021 at 10:38 PM, bigbearfng said:

he is the commander in chief for our military. though yes he probably doesn't even know what day it is. since you want to use "you just made that up" that standard would apply to most of the crap posted in the echo chamber here. 

So you did make it up.

Might I suggest that that's not the best way to come off as credible?

[bigbearfng 18]

  On 8/30/2021 at 12:34 AM, billvon said:

So you did make it up.

Might I suggest that that's not the best way to come off as credible?

I will answer this accusation...

Actually I heard it out of Biden's own mouth at one of his "press conferences" in which he said operations outside the airport were not carried out-I can't recall his exact words, but were to the effect to prevent tensions with the Taliban . I can't find a link to it at this time, however I would offer this also.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/pentagon-afghanistan-taliban-checkpoints-kabul-airport/

CNN’s Barbara Starr asked Milley pointedly if the U.S. military and international special operations would extract people from Kabul if needed.

“That would be a policy decision,” Milley replied. “If directed, we have capabilities to execute whatever we’re directed.”

When asked if President Joe Biden had limited U.S. military operations in Kabul to Hamid Karzai International Airport, National Security Council spokeswoman Emily Horne said that Austin had already described what the military’s mission is.

[Stumpy 284]

You definitely heard it but you can't remember the exact words or find any evidence of it?

Hmmmmmm. The bullshit is strong with this one.

[Phil1111 1,149]

  On 8/30/2021 at 8:54 AM, Stumpy said:

You definitely heard it but you can't remember the exact words or find any evidence of it?

Hmmmmmm. The bullshit is strong with this one.

Or

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

  On 8/30/2021 at 2:14 AM, bigbearfng said:

I will answer this accusation...

Actually I heard it out of Biden's own mouth at one of his "press conferences" in which he said operations outside the airport were not carried out-I can't recall his exact words, but were to the effect to prevent tensions with the Taliban . I can't find a link to it at this time

 

Thank you.

I appreciate your answer. 

However, 'not carrying out operations' is not the same as 'ordered not to leave the perimeter'.
And stating a policy isn't the same as issuing orders. 
Biden seems to 'know his limitations'. He's flat out said that he's following the advice and recommendations of the military leadership. The idea that Biden is issuing basic operational 'housekeeping' admin orders is kind of silly.

Part of a 'peace agreement' is respecting the opponent. You know, 'preventing tensions'.
So far, as far as I can tell, the Taliban is holding up their end of the agreement. 

No Taliban attacks on US forces, allowing US citizens to pass through checkpoints to access the airport for evac, that sort of thing. 

On a slightly different note, the US has conducted 2 drone strikes since the suicide bombings at the airport.
The first is claimed to have killed the ISIS-K leader who was behind the bombings.
The second was right near the airport. Close enough that it was first thought to be another suicide bombing. However it was a drone strike on what is claimed to be another bombing attempt. Sympathetic detonations following the missile suggest that's a correct assumption. 

 

I'm not linking anything, it's enough of a headline that a quick search will find multiple stories.

 

[bigbearfng 18]

  On 8/30/2021 at 1:48 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

Thank you.

I appreciate your answer. 

However, 'not carrying out operations' is not the same as 'ordered not to leave the perimeter'.
And stating a policy isn't the same as issuing orders. 
Biden seems to 'know his limitations'. He's flat out said that he's following the advice and recommendations of the military leadership. The idea that Biden is issuing basic operational 'housekeeping' admin orders is kind of silly.

Part of a 'peace agreement' is respecting the opponent. You know, 'preventing tensions'.
So far, as far as I can tell, the Taliban is holding up their end of the agreement. 

No Taliban attacks on US forces, allowing US citizens to pass through checkpoints to access the airport for evac, that sort of thing. 

On a slightly different note, the US has conducted 2 drone strikes since the suicide bombings at the airport.
The first is claimed to have killed the ISIS-K leader who was behind the bombings.
The second was right near the airport. Close enough that it was first thought to be another suicide bombing. However it was a drone strike on what is claimed to be another bombing attempt. Sympathetic detonations following the missile suggest that's a correct assumption. 

 

I'm not linking anything, it's enough of a headline that a quick search will find multiple stories.

 

Thank you.

It's refreshing to see an intelligent thought out response.

I found it- and I stand corrected that Biden was referring to forces other than the Taliban, and the wording of ops outside vs expanding the security perimeter.

(Slightly different note also-not expanding the security perimeter still did not prevent "unintended consequences" -the attack by ISIS-k.)

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/08/20/remarks-by-president-biden-on-evacuations-in-afghanistan/

 Q    Thank you, Mr. President.  You mentioned just now using every resource available for evacuations.  Why haven’t you ordered the military to expand the security perimeter around the Kabul airport?  Do you have any plans to do so, given that it will likely require more U.S. troops?  And are you considering rescue operations to recover Americans and Afghan allies stuck behind Taliban checkpoints?

THE PRESIDENT:  The last answer is yes — to the last question.  We’re considering every op- — every opportunity and every means by which we can get folks to the airport.  That’s number one.

Number two, the reason why we have not gone out and started — and set up a perimeter way outside the airport in Kabul is that it’s likely to draw an awful lot of unintended consequences in terms of people who, in fact, are not part of the Taliban. 

 

As for stumpy and phil-if you're going to talk smack about someone commenting on current events you should at least keep up with what's going on....

Blue skies everyone.

[billvon 3,069]

  On 8/30/2021 at 2:14 AM, bigbearfng said:

I will answer this accusation...

Actually I heard it out of Biden's own mouth at one of his "press conferences" in which he said operations outside the airport were not carried out-I can't recall his exact words, but were to the effect to prevent tensions with the Taliban . I can't find a link to it at this time, however I would offer this also.

Thanks for the answer.

It sounds like you heard that there was an operation that wasn't carried out, and later remembered it to be "Biden ordered our military not to go past the airport perimeter."  No worries.

[JerryBaumchen 1,434]

  On 8/30/2021 at 5:02 PM, bigbearfng said:

Thank you.

It's refreshing to see an intelligent thought out response.

I found it- and I stand corrected that Biden was referring to forces other than the Taliban, and the wording of ops outside vs expanding the security perimeter.

(Slightly different note also-not expanding the security perimeter still did not prevent "unintended consequences" -the attack by ISIS-k.)

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/08/20/remarks-by-president-biden-on-evacuations-in-afghanistan/

 Q    Thank you, Mr. President.  You mentioned just now using every resource available for evacuations.  Why haven’t you ordered the military to expand the security perimeter around the Kabul airport?  Do you have any plans to do so, given that it will likely require more U.S. troops?  And are you considering rescue operations to recover Americans and Afghan allies stuck behind Taliban checkpoints?

THE PRESIDENT:  The last answer is yes — to the last question.  We’re considering every op- — every opportunity and every means by which we can get folks to the airport.  That’s number one.

Number two, the reason why we have not gone out and started — and set up a perimeter way outside the airport in Kabul is that it’s likely to draw an awful lot of unintended consequences in terms of people who, in fact, are not part of the Taliban. 

 

As for stumpy and phil-if you're going to talk smack about someone commenting on current events you should at least keep up with what's going on....

Blue skies everyone.

Hi big,

Re:  I stand corrected that Biden was referring to forces other than the Taliban

Re:  if you're going to talk smack about someone commenting on current events you should at least keep up with what's going on

Just sayin . . . 

BTW, I thought you were 'out.'

Jerry Baumchen

[ryoder 1,590]

  On 8/30/2021 at 5:57 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi big,

Re:  I stand corrected that Biden was referring to forces other than the Taliban

Re:  if you're going to talk smack about someone commenting on current events you should at least keep up with what's going on

Just sayin . . . 

BTW, I thought you were 'out.'

Jerry Baumchen

<al pacino voice >Just when I thought that I was out, they pull me back in. </al pacino voIce>

Edited August 30, 2021 by ryoder

[bigbearfng 18]

  On 8/30/2021 at 5:20 PM, billvon said:

Thanks for the answer.

It sounds like you heard that there was an operation that wasn't carried out, and later remembered it to be "Biden ordered our military not to go past the airport perimeter."  No worries.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42169/operation-pineapple-express-saw-special-ops-vets-lead-rescue-of-hundreds-of-afghans

"Dozens of high-risk individuals, families with small children, orphans, and pregnant women, were secretly moved through the streets of Kabul throughout the night and up to just seconds before ISIS detonated a bomb into the huddled mass of Afghans seeking safety and freedom," retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann, a member of Task Force Pineapple and a retired Green Beret commander, told ABC News. "This Herculean effort couldn't have been done without the unofficial heroes inside the airfield who defied their orders to not help beyond the airport perimeter, by wading into sewage canals and pulling in these targeted people who were flashing pineapples on their phones."

 

Here ya go.

But I've already figured out how you twist everything, If someone said the sky is blue and you shouldn't piss into the wind you'd come up with something to the contrary. 

There are a few in here that give some common sense thought to a discussion, but the majority don't and just bash. And then there's the outright trolls. OK, I really am out of here. 

(Al Pacino voice) I really liked that one! LOL  For reals this time.

[jakee 1,563]

  On 8/30/2021 at 5:02 PM, bigbearfng said:

As for stumpy and phil-if you're going to talk smack about someone commenting on current events you should at least keep up with what's going on....

How is it that they weren't up with what's going on when you've just admitted that you were flat out wrong?

[billvon 3,069]

  On 8/30/2021 at 8:35 PM, bigbearfng said:

Here ya go.

But I've already figured out how you twist everything, If someone said the sky is blue and you shouldn't piss into the wind you'd come up with something to the contrary. 

?? No one is disputing that someone gave an order to stay inside the perimeter.  What you were claiming is that Biden gave the order.  And you've shown no proof of that.

Look, you hate his guts.  We get it.  But again, making stuff up isn't the best idea if you want to be taken seriously.  Biden has screwed up enough that you don't need to lie to make him look bad.  When you do, it just makes it look like all Biden's enemies are dishonest and can be ignored.  Is that the situation you want?

[kallend 2,106]

  On 8/30/2021 at 8:35 PM, bigbearfng said:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42169/operation-pineapple-express-saw-special-ops-vets-lead-rescue-of-hundreds-of-afghans

"Dozens of high-risk individuals, families with small children, orphans, and pregnant women, were secretly moved through the streets of Kabul throughout the night and up to just seconds before ISIS detonated a bomb into the huddled mass of Afghans seeking safety and freedom," retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann, a member of Task Force Pineapple and a retired Green Beret commander, told ABC News. "This Herculean effort couldn't have been done without the unofficial heroes inside the airfield who defied their orders to not help beyond the airport perimeter, by wading into sewage canals and pulling in these targeted people who were flashing pineapples on their phones."

 

Here ya go.

But I've already figured out how you twist everything, If someone said the sky is blue and you shouldn't piss into the wind you'd come up with something to the contrary. 

There are a few in here that give some common sense thought to a discussion, but the majority don't and just bash. And then there's the outright trolls. OK, I really am out of here. 

(Al Pacino voice) I really liked that one! LOL  For reals this time.

What part of your original statement :
"Biden ordered our military not to go past the airport perimeter"

is it that you are hoping we have forgotten?