Woke is a Joke

[JerryBaumchen 1,367]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Jerry, you are right in an absolutest sense but as a general proposition born males will have an advantage. The problem isn't that but rather the framework of sport being a decider of societal advantage. 

Hi Joe,

Yesterday, as I watched both of the NFL teams that I wanted to win, lose, I did notice that no female players were on the field.

Overall, winsor, and you, are correct.  IMO Winsor made a blanket statement that was & is wrong.

Jerry Baumchen

[wmw999 2,452]

As a blanket statement, definitely wrong. But statistics are on the side of increased muscle mass, and increased muscle mass is associated with adolescent boyhood. That's an issue that doesn't impact social performance, but it can affect athletic performance -- ergo the reason for forbidding performance-enhancing drugs in many sports. A performance-enhancing drug won't, in fact, make me into a world-class athlete, but it might improve my performance when combined with the right training (which, were I an athlete, I might be doing anyway).

We as a society haven't gotten this right yet. And it's not up to people who are mostly past high-level competitive athletics to decide. I played co-ed volleyball when I was working (company leagues). It wouldn't have mattered in the least if there had been a transgender man or woman on the team. That's reality for the vast overwhelming majority of us -- it just doesn't matter. Let's leave it to the people for whom it does matter to work out. Note that it only matters to Tucker Carlson etc. for the ratings.

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,728]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:01 PM, winsor said:

I bought a Tracy Chapman cassette many years ago and gave it away after hearing the lyrics once.

I was thinking more of having to run a gauntlet of booths supporting unrelated causes to get into an REM concert some time back.

If the lyrics are overtly distasteful I don't go.  If I'm there for tunes, and if it resembles a political convention I'm not up for it.  I'm not into anybody's political convention.

Good for you, and probably the rest of us too, that the lyrics to bird song are yet to be deciphered.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

11 hours ago, winsor said:

Okay, so you're not amused.

Mick Jagger's comment regarding being able to take a joke comes to mind.

Make that Bill Murray: "Lighten up, Francis."

So you're admitting that everything you say is a joke, not to be taken seriously.

Well, I figured that out a while back.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

4 hours ago, wmw999 said:

As a blanket statement, definitely wrong. But statistics are on the side of increased muscle mass, and increased muscle mass is associated with adolescent boyhood. That's an issue that doesn't impact social performance, but it can affect athletic performance -- ergo the reason for forbidding performance-enhancing drugs in many sports. A performance-enhancing drug won't, in fact, make me into a world-class athlete, but it might improve my performance when combined with the right training (which, were I an athlete, I might be doing anyway).

We as a society haven't gotten this right yet. And it's not up to people who are mostly past high-level competitive athletics to decide. I played co-ed volleyball when I was working (company leagues). It wouldn't have mattered in the least if there had been a transgender man or woman on the team. That's reality for the vast overwhelming majority of us -- it just doesn't matter. Let's leave it to the people for whom it does matter to work out. Note that it only matters to Tucker Carlson etc. for the ratings.

Wendy P.

This issue combined with performance enhancing drug issues may lead to sports not classifying by gender, but by chemical markers.

[riggerrob 643]

On 1/23/2023 at 9:56 AM, wmw999 said:

In the late 70's, rainbows were very popular as canopy patterns. I don't believe it was a statement in those days...

Wendy P.

I jumped a rainbow Strato-Cloud for a few years and my jumpsuit had rainbow decorations .... lonnnnnnng before rainbows were associated with gay people or lesbians or trans people or LGBTQ+++++++

[winsor 236]

14 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

Yesterday, as I watched both of the NFL teams that I wanted to win, lose, I did notice that no female players were on the field.

Overall, winsor, and you, are correct.  IMO Winsor made a blanket statement that was & is wrong.

Jerry Baumchen

You don't think that watching the video might have revealed the narrative that has everyone's knickers twisted to be entirely facetious?

Nah, what are the odds?

[winsor 236]

5 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

So you're admitting that everything you say is a joke, not to be taken seriously.

Well, I figured that out a while back.

Okay, for the hard of thinking I'll walk you through it.

The video is of a male to female convert, doing a terrible job in a (women's) figure skating competition.

The forum rules forbid linking to a video without commentary, so I included such verbiage as might attend the former male doing very well indeed.  

Since it was glaring obvious that my commentary couldn't be serious, I figured that only a moron couldn't put it together.  Obviously I was wrong, and truly brilliant people took me seriously.

Boy, have I been put in my place.

 

[jakee 1,500]

10 minutes ago, winsor said:

Boy, have I been put in my place.

When known trolls post video links, said videos rarely get watched. I'm surprised you couldn't put that together.

[lippy 918]

1 minute ago, jakee said:

When known trolls post video links, said videos rarely get watched. I'm surprised you couldn't put that together.

You beat me to it.  

[wmw999 2,452]

3 hours ago, winsor said:

The forum rules forbid linking to a video without commentary, so I included such verbiage as might attend the former male doing very well indeed.  

And we thank you

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,728]

No need to pander to Winsor. Yes, he's wicked smart but he's not alone here. You've described your nature, and that's fair. But unless your "we" is the royal "we", I'll speak for myself.

[winsor 236]

While I am largely indifferent to how someone 'identifies,' having lived and worked with people from all over the spectrum, I do have a problem with people gaming the system.  Admittedly this is not U.S. News and World Report, but the basic story is legit:

https://summit.news/2023/01/31/trans-criminals-who-raped-women-are-women-says-scottish-leader/

A friend has made a fortune surgically altering people's anatomy to mimic the genetalia of another sex, which is all well and good.  I am not, however, convinced that the end product of his handiwork is fully interchangeable with someone born with original equipment.

As far as pronouns go, one friend who is biologically female but does not present as such gets annoyed when someone calls her 'sir.'  Generally I'm cool with going along with whatever makes them feel comfortable, but draw the line at it being mandated.  That's the 'woke' part of the equation to which I object, where one group of people see fit to inflict their world view on everyone else.

I also have a problem with people supporting permanent changes made to children on the basis of their juvenile concept of reality.  If they want it when they are adult, fine.  Until then, it should be a felony for people who perform such life-altering processes.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[wmw999 2,452]

Quote

I also have a problem with people supporting permanent changes made to children on the basis of their juvenile concept of reality.  If they want it when they are adult, fine.  Until then, it should be a felony for people who perform such life-altering processes.

Does that include cochlear implants, surgical amputation of vestigial or non-functioning limbs, and the like? How about if the parent agrees with the child?

Wendy P.

[winsor 236]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Does that include cochlear implants, surgical amputation of vestigial or non-functioning limbs, and the like? How about if the parent agrees with the child?

Wendy P.

Of course! All these things are predicated upon a juvenile concept of reality.

[jakee 1,500]

2 hours ago, winsor said:

As far as pronouns go, one friend who is biologically female but does not present as such gets annoyed when someone calls her 'sir.'  Generally I'm cool with going along with whatever makes them feel comfortable, but draw the line at it being mandated. 

Wait, what? So lemme get this right - if a biological female demanded that you not refer to her using male pronouns (in other words, asks you to call her exactly what you would normally call her) you would refuse?

If there was any more evidence needed that the only cause of the anti-woke crowd is the determination to be rude out of sheer spite…

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Wait, what? So lemme get this right - if a biological female demanded that you not refer to her using male pronouns (in other words, asks you to call her exactly what you would normally call her) you would refuse?

If there was any more evidence needed that the only cause of the anti-woke crowd is the determination to be rude out of sheer spite…

Is there a proposal that mandates by law how we address people? Seems like one of them there strawman scare tactics.

[winsor 236]

19 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Is there a proposal that mandates by law how we address people? Seems like one of them there strawman scare tactics.

Jordan Peterson got sanctioned in Canuckistan for refusing to adopt trendy pronouns.  I could scare up accounts of similar cases in the U S of A as well.

I don't recall claiming that there was a proposal to mandate such stupidity by law, but since you put it on the interwebz it must be true.

[billvon 2,998]

3 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Does that include cochlear implants, surgical amputation of vestigial or non-functioning limbs, and the like? How about if the parent agrees with the child?

Wendy P.

Or Prader-scale corrections, like repair of hypospadias?  Or circumcisions?  If people who make permanent changes to an older child based on the child's desires are felons, people who mutilate an infant's genitals based on their own extremist religious beliefs would surely garner an even worse penalty.

This brings up a practical problem, though.  Since about half of male infants in the US are now circumcised, where do we put the prisons for those ~120 million people?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

3 minutes ago, winsor said:

Jordan Peterson got sanctioned in Canuckistan for refusing to adopt trendy pronouns.

No he didn't.

5 minutes ago, winsor said:

I could scare up accounts of similar cases in the U S of A as well.

Please do, so far you are 0 for 1 on the right wing meme accuracy.

5 minutes ago, winsor said:

I don't recall claiming that there was a proposal to mandate such stupidity by law,

Then why are you so worried that you are going to be mandated to use a specific pronoun?

 

 

[jakee 1,500]

3 hours ago, winsor said:

I don't recall claiming that there was a proposal to mandate such stupidity by law, but since you put it on the interwebz it must be true.

“Generally I'm cool with going along with whatever makes them feel comfortable, but draw the line at it being mandated.  That's the 'woke' part of the equation to which I object,”

So then you, errm, don’t object to any part of wokeness.
 

Except for the bit you very specifically are not claiming is happening. That’s the bit you object to. 
 

Figures.

Edited February 1, 2023 by jakee

[lippy 918]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

“Generally I'm cool with going along with whatever makes them feel comfortable, but draw the line at it being mandated.  That's the 'woke' part of the equation to which I object,”

So then you, errm, don’t object to any part of wokeness.
 

Except for the bit you’re very specifically are not claiming is happening. That’s the bit you object to. 
 

Figures.

Don't go trying to bring logic to a feelings-fight man

[mistercwood 287]

9 hours ago, winsor said:

I also have a problem with people supporting permanent changes made to children on the basis of their juvenile concept of reality.

Why do you hate hard-working gymnastics coaches and ballet teachers?

[BIGUN 1,318]

10 hours ago, winsor said:

That's the 'woke' part of the equation to which I object, where one group of people see fit to inflict their world view on everyone else.

And yet, here you are; doing that very thing. 

[billvon 2,998]

5 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

And yet, here you are; doing that very thing. 

But his view of the world is the correct one.