info on tandem skydiving deaths

[jeffrey27rj 0]

Hey guys...does anyone know if there are any stats on number of tandem jumps and number of deaths involved with those jumps? I know there are stats for all jumps in general like the 3.2 million jumps and 30 or 35 deaths or so but I can't find anything on just tandems. Just wondering because I love convincing friends to do their first jump but sometimes get asked about safety so I was hoping there was a way you could separate tandems since I know it's a lot safer than the stuff a lot of us fun jumpers do. Thanks in advance!

*If you fail to plan, you plan to fail*
*It's not flair, it's flare*
*Please use "your" and "you're" responsibly*

[gowlerk 2,190]

I do not. I'd like to see some though. I always tell people that statistically tandems are by far the safest jumps anyone can do. For both the TI and the student. This is due to the degree of training, and the strict safety protocols that are usually followed. (I know there are notable exceptions)

But this is just something I was told once. It makes sense, but I'd like some numbers to back it up.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wbk 0]

Your best bet is probably to send your friends to the BPA web site. The sample size of jumpers in the UK is likely too small to be accurate for deaths, but it's large enough to make an impression. Handy spreadsheet all the way at the bottom as well.

http://www.bpa.org.uk/staysafe/how-safe/

[jeffrey27rj 0]

That chart is awesome. Why don't we have this for US jumps? Or, better yet....for all jumps worldwide? I guess because some might not track as diligently is the answer. Love the breakdowns. Thanks!

*If you fail to plan, you plan to fail*
*It's not flair, it's flare*
*Please use "your" and "you're" responsibly*

[DHemer 0]

gowlerk

I always tell people that statistically tandems are by far the safest jumps anyone can do. For both the TI and the student. This is due to the degree of training, and the strict safety protocols that are usually followed.

Interestingly the BPA stats do not agree with you for general injuries. Minor and medium injuries (however those are classified) are more likely to happen on a tandem jump than for an experienced jumper

Serious (Maybe this includes fatalities) though is more likely for experienced jumpers

[Divalent 131]

Based on a count compiled from incident reports on this site, in the last 5 years (2011-2015) in the US there have been 6 tandem passenger/student fatalities and 5 tandem instructors fatalities. This out of an overall 105 US sport skydiving fatalites in that time span. So about 5% (just students or just instructors) or 10% (students plus instructors) of the total fatalities were tandem related.

What I don't know is what percent of all skydives in the US are tandems. (And does a tandem count as 1 or two jumps?)

Generally the cause of tandem fatalities are either equipment malfunctions or turbulence when landing. Not from canopy collision, swooping, collisions in freefall, loss of altitude awareness, or other stupid stuff that fun jumpers do.

[cpoxon 0]

jeffrey27rj

That chart is awesome. Why don't we have this for US jumps? Or, better yet....for all jumps worldwide? I guess because some might not track as diligently is the answer. Love the breakdowns. Thanks!

The BPA is a regulatory body and requires all of their dropzones to file reports (injuries/malfunctions+incidents/off-landings/third-party claims). The USPA is not so has no power to require the same.

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[Joellercoaster 6]

Damn nanny state, always making us keep records of things that happen and learn lessons from them that everyone can use.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[jonstark 8]

jeffrey27rj

Just wondering because I love convincing friends to do their first jump but sometimes get asked about safety... Thanks in advance!

Safety!?
This is skydiving for Pete's sake.
We may do everything in our power to mitigate risk but there is no "safety"in jumping.

Jon

[riggerrob 643]

Joellercoaster

Damn nanny state, always making us keep records of things that happen and learn lessons from them that everyone can use.

.............................................................................

The rest of us quietly read BPA reports and vow not to repeat those (British) mistakes.
Hee!
Hee!

On a more serious note, United Parachute Technologies (aka. the Sigma Shop) published at list of all the tandem fatalities up until 2001. That was the year they introduced the Sigma, which claimed to eliminate several potential causes of tandem accidents.
Since then tandems have moved to dominate the market, but we only suffer a few fatalities per year.

When tandem students ask me if they are safe jumping with me, I reply "I have survived 4,000 tandems and 6,000 total jumps, you do the math."

[Helliss 0]

Have to say that i disagree with you, or with the one who said that.
When you make something more complicated (like a tandem system)
there is also more things that can go wrong.

So i think it would be wrong to say that it's the safest jumps anyone can do.

[riggerrob 643]

Agreeing with Gowlerk ...
Statistically, tandems are the lowest-risk way for a student to jump.

Conversely, tandems are the highest-risk for instructors.
Tandem instructors get injured more often than AFF, IAD and S/L instructors because of all the stupid things students do during landings.

Solo malfunction rate is around 1 every 700 sport jumps.

Solo students suffer higher cutaway rates because a few panic and cutaway perfectly good main canopies, land on obstacles, etc.

Tandem mal rates vary widely from 500 to 1500. The 1500 number is based on my last few years maintaining Strong tandems.
Yes, tandem gear is more complex and has more potential malfunctions, but the mal rate can be kept tiny with 25-jump inspections, packing according to the manual and regular handles checks.

I was quoting USPA AIM rates from memory. If anyone has the most recent USPA annual summary, please post more accurate umbers.

[Helliss 0]

You have some good points! And for a student it's probably the safest way, as you say.

But would you say that a competent solo skydiver is more safe than a student doing a tandem jump?

[riggerrob 643]

Agreed.
But the key word is "competent."
Most modern skydiving accidents are caused by user error.
IOW we worked the last major bugs out of gear by 1990, so equipment malfunctions are rare these days.

[mathrick 2]

Helliss

You have some good points! And for a student it's probably the safest way, as you say.

But would you say that a competent solo skydiver is more safe than a student doing a tandem jump?

Statistically? No. BPA for instance publishes no current fatality rate for tandems because they haven't had any tandem deaths for 20 years. And the concept of a "competent solo skydiver" is ill-defined and nobody collects any demographics numbers on which to base things. The closest thing we have to such demographics is the observation that the chance that a fatality will be a very experienced jumper has gone up, a lot. Ie. it used to be the case that students died more often than pros, nowadays their proportional share has gone down sharply, whilst the proportion of very experienced skydivers (1-2k jumps or more) has gone sharply up.

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[riggerrob 643]

Warning!
Thread drift .....
The trend - in fatalities - has shifted because all the major bugs were worked out of gear so long ago that equipment malfunctions are rare.

Since the turn of the century, the most common fatality has shifted to experienced jumpers screwing "perfectly good canopies" into the planet. IOW hook turns have been the leading cause of death for more than a decade.