New Safety First Video now on Youtube: Rear Riser Landings

[BrianSGermain 1]

This episode discusses rear riser flight and landings. The more you know about this flight mode, the lower your chances of stalling, dropping a toggle, or having a lousy landing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmL82uHUuAE&list=PLAA7B03CA8C2DFDCA&index=29

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[Di0 2]

Rear-Fucking-Risers.
It saddens me to hear how many people with a few hundreds jumps are "scared" of rear riser landings, or they consider them one of those "swoopers' trickery" that they can't be bothered with.
When in fact they saved me at least one cutaway, from a stuck toggle, and, much more important, from some potential injury after dropping a toggle and realizing it only when turning at the end of my base leg (jumping during our new england winter with winter gloves, it's bound to happen sooner or later).
http://www.skydivingstills.com/keyword/n-SP7Sv/daniele%20t/i-GmP9vGt

I really believe that, after flat-turns, rear-riser landings are one of those tools that should be in everyone's bag, and one of the first things to try on a new canopy (up high, and as you said, bring them to the ground only once confident and all conditions are perfect... but practice them in the very first few jumps on a new canopy because you might never know if you will be forced in one of them after jump #1 or jump #500 on your new wing).

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[normiss 858]

Years ago after landing a Spectre 120 on rears, one of the well known jumpers came running over - you ok? what happened?

[SecondRound 1]

Brian,
You videos are incredible! The only reason I didn't buy your incredible package offer was the fact that I already have all of them. Please continue your efforts to keep us all safe.

[RopeaDope 0]

Brian,

Thanks for the new video. I have seen some of the old grouches giving you are hard time when you post links, but haters gonna hate.

Most of us finish AFF and then have to find coaches or try to catch our instructors on a slow day to get involved in anything and continue learning. By the time you get an A license, you are on your own until you get a B license and a coach rating, or more than 300-400 jumps.

During that lull it can get pretty boring jumping alone all the time and you aren't learning unless you are constantly watching other jumpers, studying material like "canopy and it pilot" and watch videos.

So thanks for taking the time to share your experience with those of us in the transition from student, to credentialed jumper.

[yoink 321]

The verbal content is really useful, Brian, but for some constructive feedback I don't think it's great for a teaching video to have a minute and a half intro, or for it to be over video of your vacations.
Honestly, I though you'd put up a link to the wrong video initially...

Either a blank screen or some diagrams or footage of what you're talking about would be much more valuable.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Gotta agree with that. Looks like a great time on vacation, though.
To the person with the stuck toggle? Another technique is to reach above the keeper ring on the riser and simply pull the steering line directly to steer and flare. Worked well for me once.

[BrianSGermain 1]

I hear you, and i made a new version of the video based on your response. here it is:

https://youtu.be/Vq76WH0_RPk

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[decompresion 2]

yoink

The verbal content is really useful, Brian, but for some constructive feedback I don't think it's great for a teaching video to have a minute and a half intro, or for it to be over video of your vacations.
Honestly, I though you'd put up a link to the wrong video initially...

Either a blank screen or some diagrams or footage of what you're talking about would be much more valuable.

Agreed about the long intro.
This is a fair point and I would usually agree. This is an excerpt from a Skydive Radio episode so it is mostly meant to be heard and not viewed. I just put it on with headphones and didn't really think about the video just like listening to the podcasts.
The skydiving video is nice but the scare factor of this other activity he is doing is much higher. It terrifies me to see these expensive, time consuming and risky activities that Brian is engaging in: raising kids!
Throw me out of a plane any day.

Good job Brian

There are no dangerous dives
Only dangerous divers

[Di0 2]

JohnMitchell

To the person with the stuck toggle? Another technique is to reach above the keeper ring on the riser and simply pull the steering line directly to steer and flare. Worked well for me once.

Eheh, true!
I wish I knew (or thought of it) back then.
It still wouldn't have helped on a dropped toggle when turning to final though.
In all honesty, if something like this happens again and I don't have time to practice the flare with this technique up high on my current canopy, I'd be much more comfortable in a rear-risers only landing, because that's something I know and done before a few times, on this and other canopies.
But that's a good point and something to try next jump I do (leave one brake stowed and fly/flare around that way), you can never have too many "plan B"s

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Di0

It still wouldn't have helped on a dropped toggle when turning to final though.

Dropped toggles have caused many accidents and at least one fatality that I know of. Here's what I teach to reduce the likelihood of dropping a toggle, esp. on final.

Always put all 4 fingers thru your steering toggle loops. If you want to use your front riser dive loops to make a turn to final (like I usually do), use only your index and middle finger thru the dive loops, hooking them in but not gripping hard. Meanwhile, insure your ring and pinkie fingers are holding tight your toggle loops. After you finish your front riser turn, straighten your index and middle finger to let go of the dive loops and regrip on your steering toggles.

I am not a swooper and know these techniques will not work for what many high performance canopy pilots are doing. However, this technique has worked well for keeping me out of the emergency room.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Di0

***
But that's a good point and something to try next jump I do (leave one brake stowed and fly/flare around that way), you can never have too many "plan B"s

Let me know how it works for you.

[Di0 2]

JohnMitchell

Dropped toggles have caused many accidents and at least one fatality that I know of. Here's what I teach to reduce the likelihood of dropping a toggle, esp. on final.

Always put all 4 fingers thru your steering toggle loops. If you want to use your front riser dive loops to make a turn to final (like I usually do), use only your index and middle finger thru the dive loops, hooking them in but not gripping hard. Meanwhile, insure your ring and pinkie fingers are holding tight your toggle loops. After you finish your front riser turn, straighten your index and middle finger to let go of the dive loops and regrip on your steering toggles.

I am not a swooper and know these techniques will not work for what many high performance canopy pilots are doing. However, this technique has worked well for keeping me out of the emergency room.

In reality, as I am currently learning how to swoop, that's exactly the technique I've been taught for Front Riser turns.
Sure, you lose some "power" because you only have two fingers through the Front loops but the benefit of not killing yourself after the turn is worth it, since you can regain that power with a good technique and some gym time. LoL
Even with only two fingers and a canopy that is not exactly known for low front riser pressure, after only a couple of weeks of trying I can pull the fronts lower and longer than I am comfortable with anyway. :)

I think the main danger of dropping a toggle is not dropping the toggle in itself, as much as doing it without realizing (see, again, wearing gloves etc). If you realize it soon enough (i.e. pretty much anywhere before the actual flare time), bailing out on rears should always be possible, as long as you know you have to... but once you go to flare and your hands do nothing, now it's too late because a) you're probably too low and b) your hands are nowhere near the rears.

So now before I commit to my final front riser turn, I always take a second to visually check that my toggles are still where they are meant to be (reaching all the way up before starting the surge is a perfect time for that).
Sure you can always drop them by mistake during the turn, in that case you're probably toasted but... I try to reduce that occurrence as much as I can and then, well. So be it.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[Di0 2]

JohnMitchell

Let me know how it works for you. :)

I most certainly will.
I am actually curious to try, as I am now on a canopy where a toggle fire can become a bit of an annoyance, I am curious to see what would happen.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Toggle fires, to me, means there is a problem with the gear or with the packing. There's no good reason they should come undone.

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

[normiss 858]

Same opinion as you.

[Di0 2]

You mean those 9 years old risers with stretched keepers are not mean to outlive the container?!

Also yes, 100% agree, if you start getting toggle fires more than occasionally (because occasionally, well, shit happens) it's usually a good idea to have a closer look at the condition of risers/toggles.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[mathrick 2]

Is it just me, or is the landing on rear risers not actually discussed? From listening to it, I didn't really get a clear outline of "this is a safe way of progressing from up high rear riser flares to actually executing it on the ground that minimises the risk of injuring yourself".

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[JohnMitchell 16]

I've landed using only rear risers maybe a dozen times, not much, but enough to say it can be safely done. Talk to a local canopy coach about it.